Obey them that have the rule over you - Page 8

Esaias · #71 01-14-2015, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Nice to meet you too!...LOL

I would like to get you view on these posts and some of my resources of this proir thread.

Gail Riplinger has a video link here about errant Bibles.......

Dr. Walter Vieth has a video of the construction of the Bibles that appear today, including the KJV.....https://

Most folks are violently ugly about this KJV only group(as you will see), but if there is just a little bit of objectivity in you, just do yourself a favor and check these sources out.....

Here is the original thread I posted....http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=46232

Personally I would avoid using Riplinger as a source for anything.

Sean · #72 01-14-2015, 11:33 PM

Dont look at the person, but the material. She is a trini, but her stuff on the overhead is amazing. I have distributed this video to hundreds of brethren and they agree with it.

Esaias · #73 01-14-2015, 11:49 PM

Yeah but Riplinger has some other issues besides her trinitarianism. There are plenty of scholarly defenders of the KJV that will do in a pinch. jmo

But I also think we're not dealing with logical issues. Most people don't really use logic or reason anymore, for ANY subject. It's all heuristics. And we can thank the public skool system for that.

obriencp · #74 01-15-2015, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

But I also think we're not dealing with logical issues. Most people don't really use logic or reason anymore, for ANY subject. It's all heuristics. And we can thank the public skool system for that.

Thank you for expanding my vocabulary today. And I do agree with this statement.

Aquila · #75 01-15-2015, 02:29 PM

In the house church movement, elders are spiritual mentors and fathers that guide and teach. They are not there to control every choice you make or aspect of your life as you learn to follow the Spirit. Instead, they warn where they feel there might be dangers, but they leave the choice up to you, realizing that we are all on a journey and have much to learn. If a bad choice is made, they are there to help lift up, encourage, and pray for healing. Among them are quiet unassuming prophets and seers, open to offering spiritual counsel and guidance as needed.

After experiencing the leadership of the elders in the house church movement... I don't think I could tolerate the totalitarian control of many pastors in the traditional church.

Revelationist · #76 01-15-2015, 07:49 PM

Hebrews 13:7
7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you; consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. NRSV

Ol' King James had that one modified just a little... since he had rule over them. NRSV is more accurate...

FlamingZword · #77 01-15-2015, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

A true facsimile copy is available only one place and it ain't cheap.

I know it is not cheap, it cost me a pretty penny.
But I think it was worth every penny in order to show the KJV Crowd the foolishness of their idea.
A true KJV Only believer would Only use an exact copy like the one I have.

votivesoul · #78 01-15-2015, 08:52 PM

I make some comments on "Obey them that have the rule over you" here:

https://votivesoul.wordpress.com/201...-of-eisegesis/

and here:

https://votivesoul.wordpress.com/201...hip-deception/

The basic idea is as follows:

Obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves...

Obey, from peitho to persuade or convince

Them: it is plural!

Rule, from hegemonai to lead, go before

Over: NOT EVEN PRESENT IN THE GREEK

Submit, from hypeiko to yield, give way

So what is the author attempting to convey?

A military structure where some give orders and some follow orders? Nope.

He is suggesting that people learn to yield to those who are able by lifestyle and demonstration of Godly moral character, to persuade or convince that whatever courses of action are proper.

There is no hint of expectation that a person must fall in and do what he or she is told. A person needs to be persuaded and out of a good conscience that what they are being told is righteous, yield to the influence.

But the obligation is ONLY present when the persuasion is right. We shouldn't allow ourselves to be persuaded just because. If you can't convince me by the Spirit and peaceable fruits of love that you know what you're talking about, then I don't have to yield.

Further, since "over" isn't even there, the whole idea that there are levels of hierarchy where some have to submit to others who don't have to submit to anyone, can't be proven from this verse (try as people do).

Lastly, the persuasion and convincing should come from multiple sources, not just one person. The Body, with the elders, should be able, if they are righteous and being led by the Spirit, to convince anyone of what is right.

But even if they try, and a person doesn't yield, it doesn't mean they get to pull rank and start making demands. There is no barking of orders allowed by the verse in the Greek.

votivesoul · #79 01-15-2015, 08:58 PM

As they that must give an account...

It has long been believed that this means that pastors will have to stand before Christ in the judgment seat and tell Him how so and so in their church was; were they good or bad, easy or hard to pastor, and that somehow, this account will determine whether or not Jesus will allow the person so pastored into heaven.

Where is that in the verse?

That is all assumed. It makes my salvation dependent upon another man who is not my head to give a report to the Lord and either save or condemn me. That's garbage.

Let's be realistic. No one in the Body but Jesus Himself has that kind of power over a soul.

After all, maybe when I stand before the Lord in the judgment seat, I will give an account of how badly some men I know have pastored and Jesus will bar them entrance?

KeptByTheWord · #80 01-16-2015, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I make some comments on "Obey them that have the rule over you" here:

https://votivesoul.wordpress.com/201...-of-eisegesis/

and here:

https://votivesoul.wordpress.com/201...hip-deception/

The basic idea is as follows:

Obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves...

Obey, from peitho to persuade or convince

Them: it is plural!

Rule, from hegemonai to lead, go before

Over: NOT EVEN PRESENT IN THE GREEK

Submit, from hypeiko to yield, give way

So what is the author attempting to convey?

A military structure where some give orders and some follow orders? Nope.

He is suggesting that people learn to yield to those who are able by lifestyle and demonstration of Godly moral character, to persuade or convince that whatever courses of action are proper.

There is no hint of expectation that a person must fall in and do what he or she is told. A person needs to be persuaded and out of a good conscience that what they are being told is righteous, yield to the influence.

But the obligation is ONLY present when the persuasion is right. We shouldn't allow ourselves to be persuaded just because. If you can't convince me by the Spirit and peaceable fruits of love that you know what you're talking about, then I don't have to yield.

Further, since "over" isn't even there, the whole idea that there are levels of hierarchy where some have to submit to others who don't have to submit to anyone, can't be proven from this verse (try as people do).

Lastly, the persuasion and convincing should come from multiple sources, not just one person. The Body, with the elders, should be able, if they are righteous and being led by the Spirit, to convince anyone of what is right.

But even if they try, and a person doesn't yield, it doesn't mean they get to pull rank and start making demands. There is no barking of orders allowed by the verse in the Greek.

Excellent thoughts, and thank you for sharing!