Obey them that have the rule over you

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

This goes along with how I feel about the KJV. I look at the strong's and also have many translations, but I have faith in the KJV being the word of God in the English language. By all means study but I feel people are making a mistake to tamper with the meaning of its content.

My first Bible was a KJV: the Lord directed me to it from among 4-5 different versions. I also use a Strongs Concordance, but only as a guide. Fact is, I have two. One is from 1982, and a newer version. I feel the older one is a better version...and they ARE NOT the same. I'm still comparing them.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Sean

This is what I see as amazing bro....

I have heard and quoted under the unction of the Holy Ghost for 35 years the KJV verses, DIVINELY, from memory, quoted verbatim.

However, I have never heard one verse QUOTED from any other Bible by ANY minister or saint. ONLY READ FROM THE BOOK!

My conclusion by observation is the KJV is divinely anointed and inspired by the Lord!!!

I rely on the KJV for my daily reading, and certainly any scriptures that I've memorized are KJV. I too have not heard anyone quote memorized scripture from any other version. That is a very good point. I use a Strong's as well, and E-Sword program to help with more information on the subject as well as the commentaries available in that program.

One of the things I have noticed with concordances, dictionaries, etc., is that many times they will list several English words as a meaning for that word and those English words may each have quite different meanings in our language, thus leaving it open to the researcher to pick which one works best. So, again, it becomes the tool or even trick, of the person looking up the word to pick the word that best fits their idea of how the passage should read.

[shazeep]

hmm, i usually consciously avoid trying to "pick" a single defining word, as the context generally works that out for me.

Originally Posted by thephnxman

My first Bible was a KJV: the Lord directed me to it from among 4-5 different versions. I also use a Strongs Concordance, but only as a guide. Fact is, I have two. One is from 1982, and a newer version. I feel the older one is a better version...and they ARE NOT the same. I'm still comparing them.

ya, quite a few changes, huh? Shepherd's Chapel still had some of the old version, at least a year ago they did.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm, i usually consciously avoid trying to "pick" a single defining word, as the context generally works that out for me. ya, quite a few changes, huh? Shepherd's Chapel still had some of the old version, at least a year ago they did.

Ah, Arnold Murray... taught me how to teach the bible... chapter by chapter, verse by verse...

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Sean

[COLOR="red"]I will not try to convince you something you DO NOT want to find out about.

lol, nice characterization. Ty.

Originally Posted by Sean

Have you even investigated OPEN MINDEDLY the use of the word EASTER there?

it was my thesis, so i would say yes, i am fully aware of the perfectly reasonable explanations for ditching Passover in favor of participating in fertility rites to Ishtar--the eggs, the bunnies, etc. Wadr, you have chosen an interpretation that is more comfortable for you to read, imo. Christ is our Passover--but i have no desire to argue this any longer. If you're comfy with Easter, then do Easter.

[KeptByTheWord]

I don't like the term Easter or all the bunny rabbit nonsense at all, but I sure do believe that we are to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord and Passover.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ah, Arnold Murray... taught me how to teach the bible... chapter by chapter, verse by verse...

I believe Calvary Chapel does the same thing?

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by Sean

In a round about way you are advocating making your own Bible, whether you realize it or not.

Since there are things you dont care for in the KJV, you then use a COMPLILATION of information to find the passage that fits your ideas better.

This is pure baloney. The KJV is not The Bible, it is simply an English Translation of The Bible. The Bible is the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek writings, and up until King James commissioned a group of Church of England scholars to translate the texts into English, the Bible was read only by learned men who could read those languages. It's a well-documented fact that the KJV has numerous errors. Likewise there are passages and words in other English translations that are arguably less faithful to the meaning of the original language.

There is no version that is 'holier' than the others, although there are some that are certainly less accurate than others. All were translated by fallible men, many of whom did/do not follow the plan of salvation and likely will not be found in Heaven. The fact of the matter is, the original text stands on its own and can be interpreted by scholars whether or not they are saved. It is up to us to study the scriptures diligently and be sure we are understanding correctly the intent of the original writers.

My own opinion is that the KJV is a perfectly acceptable translation and the errors that are present are, for the most part, negligible. It is difficult to read, however. The NKJV and the NIV are also good translations, from what I have come to learn in my research, and they are much easier to read.

Originally Posted by Sean

Something you can find more comfortable to read.

Yes, and I'm sure the Hebrew and Greek-reading scholars of 1611 leveled the same accusations at the ignorant laity when they began reading their KJV Bibles. However, unlike your argument, they actually had an excellent point when comparing their Greek and Hebrew library of scriptures to those of the KJV translated text the unlearned laity was reading.

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by Sean

This is what I see as amazing bro....

I have heard and quoted under the unction of the Holy Ghost for 35 years the KJV verses, DIVINELY, from memory, quoted verbatim.

However, I have never heard one verse QUOTED from any other Bible by ANY minister or saint. ONLY READ FROM THE BOOK!

My conclusion by observation is the KJV is divinely anointed and inspired by the Lord!!!

Nothing amazing about this whatsoever. God uses what we have in our brains, and KJV is by far the most popular translation that has been read and memorized for centuries. If you'd been reading and memorizing NKJV for he past 35 years it would come out NKJV.

You know what's crazy is...if you were to go to China, to an underground service, and someone was to burst forth quoting scripture under the unction of the Holy Ghost...it won't be 1600's King's English, bro. It will probably be MANDARIN. It will be a translation in THEIR OWN LANGUAGE...which will probably be a translation that was done sometime in the past 100 years, by Trinitarian missionaries.

[Pendragon]

In response to the OP:

I think a critical part of this passage is found in the first verse you quoted, 7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

In the NIV, "Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith."

One of the reasons I no longer obey and follow a certain man of God (I began following another; I am not leaderless) is because his life was far less than a shining light. The outcome of his way of life and his interpretation of scriptures resulted in a life that was barren of the fruit of the Spirit. His wife was even worse.

As we know, scripture interprets scripture, and Isaiah shows us that we build a foundation not with just one bit of knowledge or scripture, but 'line upon line, precept upon precept'.

Matthew 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

If you were to simply accept 'them that have the rule over you' and blindly follow the pastor in whose church you were raised, or received the Holy Ghost, or however you came to be there, you might end up following a woefully inadequate leader, or an outright false sheep. On the other hand, if you look at the multiple verses above, and the principles they teach, you will come to realize that you need to not only listen to what your pastor is teaching, but how he lives his life. I heard fantastic teaching from my old pastor. His brain was chock full of scripture, and it came out in his teaching. I am grateful for many of the sermons I heard when I was in his church. But ultimately I realized his personal life and behavior was far below what is expected of a child of God and I moved on. Everyone struggles with things, but there is a big difference between a child of God who is weak in some areas, and someone who just doesn't bear any fruit whatsoever. There is no way he should have been in a position of authority. It was definitely the right decision to move on.