Angels reproducing with humans possible?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Luke

These are the only times that the phrase sons of God is used in the old testament:

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Can you show me one other time in the old testament that the phrase sons of God reffers to humans except the one time that you do not like?

Also it does not say in luke that the angels cannot marry or be given in marriage but that they don't.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

If sons of God refer to angels, then do we become angels when we obey the Gospel and are led by the Spirit of God? No, sons of God were those who followed God. Hence the godly line of Seth.

Remember the New Testament borrows its phraseology from the Old Testament, so if the Judean understood sons of God to mean angels then they would of carried that through to the New Testament.

Originally Posted by Luke

Also it does not say in luke that the angels cannot marry or be given in marriage but that they don't.

What are you trying to say?

Could you clarify the above question?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Luke

These are the only times that the phrase sons of God is used in the old testament:

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Can you show me one other time in the old testament that the phrase sons of God reffers to humans except the one time that you do not like?

Also it does not say in luke that the angels cannot marry or be given in marriage but that they don't.

We are referred to as the "sons of God" in John 1:12; Romans 8:14; Romans 8:19; Galatians 4:6; Php 2:15; I John 3:1-2.

So, adding in context, Job appears to be referring to angels. Genesis and the NT passages appear to be referring to human beings.

Basically, you'd have to agree with Barnes when he explains - "The phrase “sons of God,” means an order of intelligent beings who “retain the purity of moral character” originally communicated, or subsequently restored, by their Creator."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

giants — The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide. - JFB

H5303
נפל נפיל
nephı̂yl nephil
nef-eel', nef-eel'
From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.

CONTEXT

nep̱iyliym: A masculine noun used only in the plural meaning giants. The celebrated, puzzling passage where this term is first used is Gen_6:4 which merely transliterates the Hebrew word into English as Nephilim. These beings evidently appeared on the earth in the ancient past when divine beings cohabited with woman, and Nephilim, the mighty men or warriors of great fame, were the offspring. This huge race of Nephilim struck fear into the Israelite spies who had gone up to survey the land of Canaan (see Num_13:31-33). The sons of Anak, a tall race of people, came from the Nephilim (Num_13:33; cf. Deu_2:10-11; Deu_9:2; Jos_15:14). Eze_2:21, Eze_2:27 may have the Nephilim in mind, possibly equating them with the mighty men or mighty warriors in the passage. These beings were not divine but only at best great, powerful men.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sean

Absolutely not..Adam was a son of God and those were his backslid offspring. It was simply stating that they all left God and became a bunch of fornicators.


BTW...All humans were giants(we stop growing around 20, they stopped around 100 years old). Including Noah and his family. Where do you think the giants came from in Caanan?

Uh...if ALL humans were giants then why call only certain ones "Giants"?

Also where does it say they stopped growing at 100?

[KeptByTheWord]

This is an interesting read on the subject. And interestingly enough, the blog post was just published today, Sept. 4.

http://parablesblog.blogspot.com/201...-on-earth.html

An excerpt from the blog post:

Satan has fallen (naphal) from heaven. He is therefore a Nephilim, a fallen one. Although Satan is a Nephilim, a fallen one, we have no Biblical account of his having engaged in sexual activity with the daughters of men. It is very doubtful that he has done so, for the Scriptures declare that those angels who transgressed in this manner have been judged before the normal time of judgment and sealed away in chains (Jude 6). Not all Nephilim (fallen ones) have transgressed by engaging in fornication with women. There were many angels who joined Satan in his rebellion against Yahweh. These ones were cast from the heavenly realms where the throne of Yahweh resides. Like Satan, they too experienced a fall (naphal) from heaven. They are Nephilim, fallen ones.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

CONTEXT

nep̱iyliym: A masculine noun used only in the plural meaning giants. The celebrated, puzzling passage where this term is first used is Gen_6:4 which merely transliterates the Hebrew word into English as Nephilim. These beings evidently appeared on the earth in the ancient past when divine beings cohabited with woman, and Nephilim, the mighty men or warriors of great fame, were the offspring. This huge race of Nephilim struck fear into the Israelite spies who had gone up to survey the land of Canaan (see Num_13:31-33). The sons of Anak, a tall race of people, came from the Nephilim (Num_13:33; cf. Deu_2:10-11; Deu_9:2; Jos_15:14). Eze_2:21, Eze_2:27 may have the Nephilim in mind, possibly equating them with the mighty men or mighty warriors in the passage. These beings were not divine but only at best great, powerful men.

So, what you have and what the Strongs has are different.

Yet, I read the Pulpit Commentary, Gill and JFB agreeing, concisely on Gen. 6:4

"the word "Nephilim" comes from a word which signifies to fall; and these might be so called, either because they made their fear to fall upon men, or men, through fear, to fall before them, because of their height and strength; or rather because they fell and rushed on men with great violence, and oppressed them in a cruel and tyrannical manner;" - Pulpit Commentary; Gill

"4. giants—The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide." JFB

And concerning Numbers 13:33, I read...

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 33. - The giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants, אֶת־הַנְּפִילים בְּנִי עַנָק מִן־הַנְּפִלים. The Nephilim, Beni-Anak, of the Nephilim. The Septuagint has only τοὺς γίγαντας. The Nephilim are, without doubt, the primaeval tyrants mentioned under that name in Genesis 6:4. The renown of these sons of violence had come down from those dim ages, and the exaggerated fears of the spies saw them revived in the gigantic forms of the Beni-Anak. There is no certainty that the Nephilim had been giants, and no likelihood whatever that the Beni-Anak had any real connection with them. As grasshoppers. We have no means of judging of the actual size of these men, unless the height assigned to Goliath (six cubits and a span) be allowed to them. Probably men of this stature were quite exceptional even among the Anakim. The report of the spies was thoroughly false in effect, although founded on isolated facts.


It doesn't seem to be certain. Although, Numbers 13:32 uses the word, stature. I won't rule out the height, but I have to think about it some more.

I went back to read Numbers 13:32, which says they brought an "evil report", meaning slandering or lying.

JFB - "men of a great stature — This was evidently a false and exaggerated report, representing, from timidity or malicious artifice, what was true of a few as descriptive of the people generally."

Gill - and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature; or men of measures (p), of a large measure, above the common measure of men; but it may be justly questioned whether they spoke truth; for though they might see some that exceeded in height men in common, yet it is not credible that all they saw were of such a size; since they were not only at Hebron and saw the giants there who were such, but they went through the land, as in the preceding clause, and all they met with cannot be supposed to be of such a measure.

Anyway, pondering what I actually believe the passages are conveying.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Then why are these angels different than the demons which possessed people and were free to roam upon the earth, instead of being reserved in chains.?

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Darkness may refer to quality of existence not location. They are permanent deluded

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

So, what you have and what the Strongs has are different.

Yet, I read the Pulpit Commentary, Gill and JFB agreeing, concisely on Gen. 6:4

"the word "Nephilim" comes from a word which signifies to fall; and these might be so called, either because they made their fear to fall upon men, or men, through fear, to fall before them, because of their height and strength; or rather because they fell and rushed on men with great violence, and oppressed them in a cruel and tyrannical manner;" - Pulpit Commentary; Gill

"4. giants—The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide." JFB

And concerning Numbers 13:33, I read...

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 33. - The giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants, אֶת־הַנְּפִילים בְּנִי עַנָק מִן־הַנְּפִלים. The Nephilim, Beni-Anak, of the Nephilim. The Septuagint has only τοὺς γίγαντας. The Nephilim are, without doubt, the primaeval tyrants mentioned under that name in Genesis 6:4. The renown of these sons of violence had come down from those dim ages, and the exaggerated fears of the spies saw them revived in the gigantic forms of the Beni-Anak. There is no certainty that the Nephilim had been giants, and no likelihood whatever that the Beni-Anak had any real connection with them. As grasshoppers. We have no means of judging of the actual size of these men, unless the height assigned to Goliath (six cubits and a span) be allowed to them. Probably men of this stature were quite exceptional even among the Anakim. The report of the spies was thoroughly false in effect, although founded on isolated facts.


It doesn't seem to be certain. Although, Numbers 13:32 uses the word, stature. I won't rule out the height, but I have to think about it some more.

I went back to read Numbers 13:32, which says they brought an "evil report", meaning slandering or lying.

JFB - "men of a great stature — This was evidently a false and exaggerated report, representing, from timidity or malicious artifice, what was true of a few as descriptive of the people generally."

Gill - and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature; or men of measures (p), of a large measure, above the common measure of men; but it may be justly questioned whether they spoke truth; for though they might see some that exceeded in height men in common, yet it is not credible that all they saw were of such a size; since they were not only at Hebron and saw the giants there who were such, but they went through the land, as in the preceding clause, and all they met with cannot be supposed to be of such a measure.

Anyway, pondering what I actually believe the passages are conveying.

Like I said CONTEXT

It's CONTEXT that determines how words are used.

Those guys are commentators.

The identification of the Nephilim is debated. The term “Nephilim,” likely derived from the Hebrew verb נָפַל (naphal, “to fall”), appears to be an eponym for a class of renowned warrior-like people who fell in battle. Later Greek interpreters identified the Nephilim as semi-divine “giants” (γιγαντες, gigantes) that arose from the union of the “sons of God” and the “daughters of men” (Gen 6:1–4). The identification of Nephilim in Genesis is difficult to discern. However, the Nephilim in Numbers are directly linked to the giant race of the Anakim, and by extension the Rephaim, Emim, and Zamzummim (Deut 2:10–11, 20). This connection likely paved the way for the Septuagint (LXX) translators’ interpretation of Nephilim as giants. The Greek LXX, Intertestamental, and New Testament writers, rabbinic exegetes, and historians have all influenced understanding of the Nephilim.

Peterson, B. N. (2012). Nephilim. In J. D. Barry & L. Wentz (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary (J. D. Barry & L. Wentz, Ed.). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.





The Term “Nephilim”
The etymology of the term “Nephilim” is uncertain. Its association with the Hebrew verb n-f-l often yields the rendering “fallen ones,” that is, fallen angels. But it is not clear from the text that the Nephilim are identical with the “divine beings.” Rather, they appear to be the offspring of the cohabitation of the “sons of God” and the “daughters of men”—and the offspring may have reproduced as well. Because Num 13:33 implies these were people of extraordinary physical stature, the term may be understood to mean “giants” or “heroes.” While it is not obvious from the text whether the Nephilim themselves procreated, the Genesis narrative seems to indicate they were destroyed by the flood. If this is the case, there is both a terminology problem and a chronology problem in the narrative of the OT.


Barry, J. D., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible. Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Like I said CONTEXT

It's CONTEXT that determines how words are used.

Those guys are commentators.

The identification of the Nephilim is debated. The term “Nephilim,” likely derived from the Hebrew verb נָפַל (naphal, “to fall”), appears to be an eponym for a class of renowned warrior-like people who fell in battle. Later Greek interpreters identified the Nephilim as semi-divine “giants” (γιγαντες, gigantes) that arose from the union of the “sons of God” and the “daughters of men” (Gen 6:1–4). The identification of Nephilim in Genesis is difficult to discern. However, the Nephilim in Numbers are directly linked to the giant race of the Anakim, and by extension the Rephaim, Emim, and Zamzummim (Deut 2:10–11, 20). This connection likely paved the way for the Septuagint (LXX) translators’ interpretation of Nephilim as giants. The Greek LXX, Intertestamental, and New Testament writers, rabbinic exegetes, and historians have all influenced understanding of the Nephilim.

Peterson, B. N. (2012). Nephilim. In J. D. Barry & L. Wentz (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary (J. D. Barry & L. Wentz, Ed.). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.





The Term “Nephilim”
The etymology of the term “Nephilim” is uncertain. Its association with the Hebrew verb n-f-l often yields the rendering “fallen ones,” that is, fallen angels. But it is not clear from the text that the Nephilim are identical with the “divine beings.” Rather, they appear to be the offspring of the cohabitation of the “sons of God” and the “daughters of men”—and the offspring may have reproduced as well. Because Num 13:33 implies these were people of extraordinary physical stature, the term may be understood to mean “giants” or “heroes.” While it is not obvious from the text whether the Nephilim themselves procreated, the Genesis narrative seems to indicate they were destroyed by the flood. If this is the case, there is both a terminology problem and a chronology problem in the narrative of the OT.


Barry, J. D., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible. Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

Right, and the CONTEXT says that the 10 spies were lying about what they saw. So, again, I'll have to think about it.

And, BTW, your sources aren't any different. For instance, the Pulpit Commentary say this - Verse 33. - The giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants, אֶת־הַנְּפִילים בְּנִי עַנָק מִן־הַנְּפִלים.The Nephilim, Beni-Anak, of the Nephilim. The Septuagint has only τοὺς γίγαντας.

It shows that they are also, like your sources, studying the CONTEXT of the Hebrew language. It appears to be a 50/50 opinion, all around, on the consensus of what is meant by "giant".

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Uh...if ALL humans were giants then why call only certain ones "Giants"?

Also where does it say they stopped growing at 100?

We stop growing in our last years of H.S., Their adolescent years were into the 100 year range.






Look at the phrase "there were GIANTS in the Earth in those days...It is a "blanket statement", and is a description of mankind. It does not single out any race or certain people....It is us puny people that read into it that they were a special race....

6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,(notice, the "giants were here before the "sons of God" hooked up with the women) when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.




Folks,,,,PLEEEEASE look at what I just showed you about verse 4...It flies in the face directly of this erroneous teaching. The "giants" were clearly noted BEFORE the "hook ups"....