Is there going to be a rapture????

BrotherEastman · #1 08-20-2014, 11:48 AM

Is the taking away of the saints gonna be at Christ's second coming, or is there a way to know?

kclee4jc · #2 08-20-2014, 12:38 PM

Define "taking away" and "rapture".

Sean · #3 08-20-2014, 12:49 PM

It(the catching away, sometimes referred to as His 2nd coming for His saints) will be before His 2nd coming unto the millennial reign.

kclee4jc · #4 08-20-2014, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

It(the catching away, sometimes referred to as His 2nd coming for His saints) will be before His 2nd coming unto the millennial reign.

So there will be 2 second Comings? So his final coming in which he establishes his millennial reign will be a third coming. Advents 1, 2, and 3?

What is taking place in the following verse, in your opinion?

Matthew 24:30,31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Sean · #5 08-20-2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

So there will be 2 second Comings? So his final coming in which he establishes his millennial reign will be a third coming. Advents 1, 2, and 3?

What is taking place in the following verse, in your opinion?

Matthew 24:30,31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There are separate 2nd comings...so to speak...We will be caught away independently when the BRIDEGROOM comes for us only...and the WORLD will get a Physical 2nd coming of THEIR own. They are INDEPENDENT events of each other.

Its similar to this scenario...the RAPTURE is generally in 3 or maybe more(Enoch, Elijah considered here) separate parts, but it is considered "the 1st resurrection".....Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The above verse you posted is for the whole worlds' "2nd coming" event, not the BRIDES' taking away.

kclee4jc · #6 08-20-2014, 01:58 PM

ok.

I believe there will be one second coming at the end of the tribulation when Jesus comes to establish His Kingdom.

As to the OP and the question of the rapture. I believe in a rapture but I do not care for the term because of the connotations that go along with it in the theological world today. I do not believe we will be "caught away" but we will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air. It is more about the change that takes place, when mortality becomes immortality than it is the actual catching up. After Jesus gathers His bride to himself in the air, we will immediately return with him and war will be waged on earth and His earthly Kingdom will be established.

I do not believe in two phases to the second coming or two phases to the First Resurrection.

FlamingZword · #7 08-20-2014, 02:06 PM

The RAPTURE doctrine was created by John Nelson Darby and popularized by Cirrus I Scoffield.

It is a brand new doctrine.
For almost 2,000 years no one in the church ever taught the RAPTURE doctrine.

They who teach the rapture are all greedy preachers that preach the Rapture in order to sell books and make money.

GREEED, GREED, I Tell you it is GREED

Sean · #8 08-20-2014, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

ok.

I believe there will be one second coming at the end of the tribulation when Jesus comes to establish His Kingdom.

As to the OP and the question of the rapture. I believe in a rapture but I do not care for the term because of the connotations that go along with it in the theological world today. I do not believe we will be "caught away" but we will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air. It is more about the change that takes place, when mortality becomes immortality than it is the actual catching up. After Jesus gathers His bride to himself in the air, we will immediately return with him and war will be waged on earth and His earthly Kingdom will be established.

Amen to the above post

I do not believe in two phases to the second coming or two phases to the First Resurrection.

I understand your post trib point of view, but maybe consider this here.....

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I think the GROUP of verse 31 is the SAME group as Matt 25 here.....31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

But please notice the "taking away" of the bride first...25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. This is our 2nd coming

KeptByTheWord · #9 08-20-2014, 07:36 PM

There is going to a resurrection, for both saints, and dead. The exact timeline of how those events will take place is for God to know, and us to find out. We are to look for Christ coming as He left in the clouds... that is our hope, but as to what the timeline is of the saints and dead being resurrected remains the knowledge of God himself.

Esphes45 · #10 08-20-2014, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The RAPTURE doctrine was created by John Nelson Darby and popularized by Cirrus I Scoffield.

It is a brand new doctrine.
For almost 2,000 years no one in the church ever taught the RAPTURE doctrine.

They who teach the rapture are all greedy preachers that preach the Rapture in order to sell books and make money.

GREEED, GREED, I Tell you it is GREED

It is funny you bring this up. I was watching something about the bible and they brought this up. They talked about how some woman in Scotland had a "revelation" about being taken away by God back to heaven. And that is how the rapture talk got started.

They did not go into it anymore then that. But are you saying that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 was added by Darby and Scoffield?