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  #291  
Old 06-20-2014, 09:17 PM
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
As a muslim maybe you can offer some insight would you please answer these questions according to your beliefs?

1. Was Jesus the Son of God?

2. Did Jesus die on the cross?

3. Was Isaac not Ishmael the Promised son to Abraham and Sarah?
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  #292  
Old 06-20-2014, 09:21 PM
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
You are incorrect. Muslims do not deny Jesus. The teachings of Jesus were consistent with the teachings of the other Prophets and Messengers sent to either teach or warn those who turned away from God. The Quran lists and references them all.
Then it sounds like Muslims hold Jesus higher than the Jews....
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  #293  
Old 06-20-2014, 09:37 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
As a muslim maybe you can offer some insight would you please answer these questions according to your beliefs?

1. Was Jesus the Son of God?

2. Did Jesus die on the cross?

3. Was Isaac not Ishmael the Promised son to Abraham and Sarah?
As a Christian and well-versed I am sure in your bible allow Jesus and not me to answer your question. Does Jesus say he is the son of God? He did not. Not even once. Jesus referred to Himself as "Son of Man" but never "Son of God". Not once. If I am wrong - go find it.

Did Jesus die? The bible and Quran say He did not. He appears to still be alive. As the Quran says, the Jews believed they killed him but they did not.

What promise? Show me the promise. Go to Genesis, get it, and bring it. God made a covenant with Abraham and promised a great land that Abraham's descendants rule even to this day. Descendants of Ismael, not Isaac. For thousands and thousands of years, God's promise of nations and rule has applied. So conclude. What do YOU say happened and what actually DID happen? Doesn't a promise hold up or not based on actual events? Answer. The jews rejected Jesus and His message. They have been scattered ever since. Their salvation is not with arms from America but in turning to God and God's law.

Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 06-20-2014 at 10:01 PM.
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  #294  
Old 06-20-2014, 10:00 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
If you asked each group (jews and muslim) would they both point to specific passages in their holy book to prove their answer?
Why use either book when your own can be used? No need for mine. We discussed Jesus and God in "why do you believe Jesus is God" thread. You say he is so the Quran cannot be right.

In Acts (add this to the numerous other references)

54 And hearing these things, they were cut to the hearts, and did gnash the teeth at him;

55 and being full of the Holy Spirit, having looked stedfastly to the heaven, he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 and he said, `Lo, I see the heavens having been opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God.'

They are not the same. Revelations describes the same vision. Daniel describes the same vision. Jesus stated that this would be the case. They are not the same. Putting Jesus in the same place as God is contradictory to the bible itself.

Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 06-20-2014 at 10:54 PM.
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  #295  
Old 06-21-2014, 03:06 AM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
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Your bible has some pretty good stuff. Practice it.

"Better is the end of a thing than its beginning, and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit."

"With patience even a ruler may be persuaded, and a soft tongue will break a bone."
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  #296  
Old 06-21-2014, 12:39 PM
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
hmm, but to say Ishmael bears no favor is to ignore 12 nations, i think.
God blessed him but that is as far as it went. He did it for Abraham's sake. He was cast out during that time, you know. Ishmael is a child born after the flesh, which is a lesson Paul used in Romans 9 when he spoke about who God's people actually are today. Those after promise buy the Spirit. Ishmaelties are as lost as unsaved Jews.
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Last edited by mfblume; 06-21-2014 at 01:05 PM.
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  #297  
Old 06-21-2014, 01:46 PM
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
As a Christian and well-versed I am sure in your bible allow Jesus and not me to answer your question. Does Jesus say he is the son of God? He did not. Not even once. Jesus referred to Himself as "Son of Man" but never "Son of God". Not once. If I am wrong - go find it.

Did Jesus die? The bible and Quran say He did not. He appears to still be alive. As the Quran says, the Jews believed they killed him but they did not.

What promise? Show me the promise. Go to Genesis, get it, and bring it. God made a covenant with Abraham and promised a great land that Abraham's descendants rule even to this day. Descendants of Ismael, not Isaac. For thousands and thousands of years, God's promise of nations and rule has applied. So conclude. What do YOU say happened and what actually DID happen? Doesn't a promise hold up or not based on actual events? Answer. The jews rejected Jesus and His message. They have been scattered ever since. Their salvation is not with arms from America but in turning to God and God's law.
In Matthew 16:16-17 Jesus confirms He is the son of god. Or was it an adder as well?
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  #298  
Old 06-21-2014, 02:26 PM
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
God blessed him but that is as far as it went. He did it for Abraham's sake. He was cast out during that time, you know. Ishmael is a child born after the flesh, which is a lesson Paul used in Romans 9 when he spoke about who God's people actually are today. Those after promise buy the Spirit. Ishmaelties are as lost as unsaved Jews.
ok. you be the judge.
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  #299  
Old 06-21-2014, 02:32 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

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Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
As a Christian and well-versed I am sure in your bible allow Jesus and not me to answer your question. Does Jesus say he is the son of God? He did not. Not even once. Jesus referred to Himself as "Son of Man" but never "Son of God". Not once. If I am wrong - go find it.
First of all, Jesus did not need to say it if everyone else confessed it and Jesus did not deny it. Even the Apostles and the angels knew it

Rev 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.'
Rev 2:18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: 'The words of the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and whose feet are like burnished bronze.

But Jesus DID call Himself Son of God
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
Joh 10:37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
Joh 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father."

Joh 11:4 But when Jesus heard it he said, "This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it."

Quote:
Did Jesus die? The bible and Quran say He did not. He appears to still be alive. As the Quran says, the Jews believed they killed him but they did not
Wrong again. Yes the bible DOES say Jesus died
Mat 20:18 "See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death
Mat 20:19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day."

Mar 15:44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead.

Rom 5:6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Mar 15:32 Let the Christ, the King of Israel, come down now from the cross that we may see and believe." Those who were crucified with him also reviled him.
Mar 15:33 And when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mar 15:35 And some of the bystanders hearing it said, "Behold, he is calling Elijah."
Mar 15:36 And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, "Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down."
Mar 15:37 And Jesus uttered a loud cry and breathed his last.

Rev 1:18 and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hell and of death.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #300  
Old 06-21-2014, 04:46 PM
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Luke Luke is offline
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Re: Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
As a Christian and well-versed I am sure in your bible allow Jesus and not me to answer your question. Does Jesus say he is the son of God? He did not. Not even once. Jesus referred to Himself as "Son of Man" but never "Son of God". Not once. If I am wrong - go find it.

Did Jesus die? The bible and Quran say He did not. He appears to still be alive. As the Quran says, the Jews believed they killed him but they did not.

What promise? Show me the promise. Go to Genesis, get it, and bring it. God made a covenant with Abraham and promised a great land that Abraham's descendants rule even to this day. Descendants of Ismael, not Isaac. For thousands and thousands of years, God's promise of nations and rule has applied. So conclude. What do YOU say happened and what actually DID happen? Doesn't a promise hold up or not based on actual events? Answer. The jews rejected Jesus and His message. They have been scattered ever since. Their salvation is not with arms from America but in turning to God and God's law.
Yes He did:

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him

John 10:36 say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
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