Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

[shazeep]

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

...thus allowing legalists to reveal their premises, yes, yes. same as it ever was. Again, you honor the Man, and not the God with this; Muslims are just doing the opposite. Both are just religion, after all...
brilliant! or, close enough; your answers give possible 'why's, w/o really answering the 'how.' Ok, now see that the covenant was broken, and Israel was divorced...oh, and '12' is a special number...what else do we have 12 of? hmm

Then how was he blessed?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Luke

The Bible:

Matthew 3:17 and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

The quran

Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth break asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. That they should ascribe a son to the Merciful, when it does not become the Lord of Mercy to beget one!
—Qur’an 19:88

Those who believe that allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6).

allah has never begotten a son and there are no deities beside him (23:91).

Jews say that Ezra is the son of allah while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of allah. May allah destroy them. They are both perverted. They worship rabbis, monks and the Messiah, the son of Mary, as Lords besides allah in opposition to the monotheistic command given them (9:30, 31).

The Bible

Matthew 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified

John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout

The quran

That they said (in their boast), "We killed the Messiah Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), The Messenger of allah"- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety They killed him not-Nay, allah raised him up unto Himself; and allah is Exalted in Power, Wise- Q 4:157-158


How can both of these have been authored by the same God when they say the exact opposite of each other?

Shazeep i answered your question now your turn to do as you said and answer mine.

[shazeep]

i already just did; by pointing out that your opinion that they say 'the exact opposite of each other' is just that, an opinion; wadr. It may be read differently, by one who seeks to agree, rather than exclude. You may do what you will here, ok? I would not say that 'you are wrong.' I can only remark upon where you choose to be looking. I have witnessed the quiet Islam being practiced by most Muslims, every day; but of course that is not being shoved in your face, jammed down your throat 24/7. See what you will see. Peace to you.

[Revelationist]

Originally Posted by Luke

As a muslim maybe you can offer some insight would you please answer these questions according to your beliefs?

1. Was Jesus the Son of God?

2. Did Jesus die on the cross?

3. Was Isaac not Ishmael the Promised son to Abraham and Sarah?

His answer to the first two questions will be the same answer you get from a Jew.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

Jesus said HE was THE only way not A way.

The bolded sentence defies logic and is impossible to be true.

Notice that you used an indefinite article "a" and a definite "the" article to describe the same thing "way".

Indefinite articles refer to generic terms, while definite articles refre to specific terms.

You took one specific way and tried to make it generic but if it is generic it is no longer specific.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Revelationist

His answer to the first two questions will be the same answer you get from a Jew.

If you asked each group (jews and muslim) would they both point to specific passages in their holy book to prove their answer?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i already just did; by pointing out that your opinion that they say 'the exact opposite of each other' is just that, an opinion; wadr. It may be read differently, by one who seeks to agree, rather than exclude. You may do what you will here, ok? I would not say that 'you are wrong.' I can only remark upon where you choose to be looking. I have witnessed the quiet Islam being practiced by most Muslims, every day; but of course that is not being shoved in your face, jammed down your throat 24/7. See what you will see. Peace to you.

Just so i understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that when the Bible specificly calls Jesus the Son of God and that He died on the cross it is saying the same thing as the quran when it says that it is blasphemous and lies to say that God had a son and that Jesus was crucified?

Or are you saying that you don't think either say what i copied and pasted from them?

[shazeep]

i am saying that you are trying to get to this like a lawyer, and looking for the right words; when words will fail you. They already have--the Qur'an cannot be translated--it is said--and you cannot think in Arabic. This is only a recipe for disaster, what you are trying to do. You will inevitably find an answer, but cannot tell how it relates to the truth. It is easy to see that you already have (been provided) an answer in your heart, wadr-- "Muslims are my enemies;" when, if you were to actually ask the question, "Are Muslims my enemies?" the means of determining the answer would then follow from that. The cart has been put first; the camel is hamstrung.

There are no Muslims in the Vatican, Luke--it is the last place on earth any practicing Muslim would want to set foot.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i am saying that you are trying to get to this like a lawyer, and looking for the right words; when words will fail you. They already have--the Qur'an cannot be translated--it is said--and you cannot think in Arabic. This is only a recipe for disaster, what you are trying to do. You will inevitably find an answer, but cannot tell how it relates to the truth. It is easy to see that you already have (been provided) an answer in your heart, wadr-- "Muslims are my enemies;" when, if you were to actually ask the question, "Are Muslims my enemies?" the means of determining the answer would then follow from that. The cart has been put first; the camel is hamstrung. There are no Muslims in the Vatican, Luke.

Is that a yes or a no?

I do not veiw mslims as my enemies i do view their demon god my enemy. I also dont look to the vatican for my answer.