Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

[Revelationist]

Might I add here while we are discussing Islam that during the crusades the Muslems protected the one God churches because they both believed in one God. This can be found in history.

[shazeep]

funny you mention that, i'm reading about it right now

"In the name of religion under the very nose of Christians, Satan took over the Church and used it to perpetrate all manner of evil. He proclaimed the Virgin Mary as the new Prostitute of Babylon. She was proclaimed the holy mother of God and worshipped by Christians. Idolatry was practiced in the worship of saints, relics, and crucifixes. Church treasuries were filled with money, the "root of all evil." The Divine Institution of Marriage was forbidden for priests. Children were taken from parents to be indoctrinated into the evil of Baal. The Roman Catholic Church murdered, pillaged, raped, ruined, and ruled in the name of religion. No other institution in the history of the world has perpetrated more evil than the Roman Catholic Church. It is the epitome of the Prostitute of Babylon. No greater example of the Prostitute of Babylon exists in human history..."
same link

gee, i wonder why Muhammad (PBUH) was so adamant about One God...

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Your ignorance is hanging in the wind (probably indicative of your spelling challenges ya?).

Perhaps you should call out the translators and revise (well re-re-re-revise) because Allah sure is the name for God in the Arabic bible (your bible translated into Arabic, not the Quran).

Why don't you pray to ELI as Jesus did? Is it because your God and Jesus' God are different? Your god is who ? Bank accounts? Nice suits? Full gun case and lots of ammo? A "holy" look with a smooth face, sideburns no lower than the middle of the ear, and hair not touching the collar? SUV wrapped around you and your family?

Bleh. Such a god is a god of no book

As a muslim maybe you can offer some insight would you please answer these questions according to your beliefs?

1. Was Jesus the Son of God?

2. Did Jesus die on the cross?

3. Was Isaac not Ishmael the Promised son to Abraham and Sarah?

[shazeep]

do you not see that the correct words in your estimation are irrelevant, luke?
was not Ishmael blessed of God, and also made a great nation?

[Luke]

The Bible:

Matthew 3:17 and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

The quran

Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth break asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. That they should ascribe a son to the Merciful, when it does not become the Lord of Mercy to beget one!
—Qur’an 19:88

Those who believe that allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6).

allah has never begotten a son and there are no deities beside him (23:91).

Jews say that Ezra is the son of allah while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of allah. May allah destroy them. They are both perverted. They worship rabbis, monks and the Messiah, the son of Mary, as Lords besides allah in opposition to the monotheistic command given them (9:30, 31).

The Bible

Matthew 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified

John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout

The quran

That they said (in their boast), "We killed the Messiah Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), The Messenger of allah"- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety They killed him not-Nay, allah raised him up unto Himself; and allah is Exalted in Power, Wise- Q 4:157-158


How can both of these have been authored by the same God when they say the exact opposite of each other?

[shazeep]

i can tell you how; but first you must answer a question; if Isaac was the chosen, how could Ishmael also be "blessed of God?"

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Luke

He was also God at the same time He was man.

Are you saying He didn't mean what said or that there is a deeper meaning?

God is manifest in endless ways. God was manifest in Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Mohammed, and many others. But these were all humanity. Each speaking and interpreting the message they were given through their own cultural and socio-religious contexts.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." The way, the truth, and the life was also revealed in others. They too showed a path that is the only way. The only way is God.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i can tell you how; but first you must answer a question; if Isaac was the chosen, how could Ishmael also be "blessed of God?"

The seems to give reasons why Ishmael was blessed of God but not the promised seed of Abraham.


Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

The first reason was because of his father's prayers.

The second reason was because of who his father was.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Antipas

God is manifest in endless ways. God was manifest in Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Mohammed, and many others. But these were all humanity. Each speaking and interpreting the message they were given through their own cultural and socio-religious contexts.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." The way, the truth, and the life was also revealed in others. They too showed a path that is the only way. The only way is God.

Jesus said HE was THE only way not A way.

The bolded sentence defies logic and is impossible to be true.

Notice that you used an indefinite article "a" and a definite "the" article to describe the same thing "way".

Indefinite articles refer to generic terms, while definite articles refre to specific terms.

You took one specific way and tried to make it generic but if it is generic it is no longer specific.

[shazeep]

...thus allowing legalists to reveal their premises, yes, yes. same as it ever was. Again, you honor the Man, and not the God with this; Muslims are just doing the opposite. Both are just religion, after all...

Originally Posted by Luke

The seems to give reasons why Ishmael was blessed of God but not the promised seed of Abraham.


Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

The first reason was because of his father's prayers.

The second reason was because of who his father was.

brilliant! or, close enough; your answers give possible 'why's, w/o really answering the 'how.' Ok, now see that the covenant was broken, and Israel was divorced...oh, and '12' is a special number...what else do we have 12 of? hmm