Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

[shazeep]

ok then

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sorry, guys. But too much plain old dishonesty here.

Yup - the oldest texts of Revelation don't really support your view. You probably should stick with "Queen" James.

Bye. Again.

Desiderius Erasmus was a "Christian humanist" who collected Greek (and Latin) New Testament manuscripts and compared and edited them, verse by verse, selecting what he considered to be the best variant passages, until he had compiled what came to be known as the "textus receptus." Early English translations of the Bible, were based on his "textus receptus."

Although the title page of The King James Bible boasted that it was "newly translated out of the original tongues," the work was actually a revision of The Bishop's Bible of 1568, which was a revision of The Great Bible of 1539, which was itself based on three previous English translations from the early 1500s.

Sir Walter Raleigh: "King Elizabeth" had been succeeded by "Queen James."

I will leave "textus receptus" to folks like you and "queen" James. If there is dishonesty here it did not come from me.

The thorough Calvinism of the Geneva Bible (more evident in the marginal notes than in the translation itself) offended the high-church party of the Church of England, to which almost all of its bishops subscribed. They associated Calvinism with Presbyterianism, which sought to replace government of the church by bishops (Episcopalian) with government by lay elders. However, they were aware that the Great Bible of 1539 —which was the only version then legally authorized for use in Anglican worship—was severely deficient; in that much of the Old Testament and Apocrypha was translated from the Latin Vulgate, rather than from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. In an attempt to replace the objectionable Geneva translation, they circulated one of their own, which became known as the Bishops' Bible.

The translators of the King James Version were instructed to take the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible as their basis, although several other existing translations were taken into account

Under the direction of Queen Elizabeth I, who had no love for the Puritans and their Calvinistic doctrine, the archbishop of Canterbury, Matthew Parker, himself a scholar, took on the task of coming up with an alternative to the Geneva Bible. Portions of the text were assigned to various revisers, the majority of whom were bishops. In spite of their prejudice against the Geneva Bible because of its blatant advocacy of lay elders and church leaders—as opposed to the clergy-led paradigm embraced by the Anglican hierarchy—the Geneva Bible was the basis for the Bishops’ Bible, although the offending anti-episcopal notes were removed. No doubt this is partly why the Bishops’ Bible never achieved the support among the common people enjoyed by the Geneva Bible.

Surah 5:13-15 But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others). And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did. O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah.

This was written before all of these revisions were made. This was true then and is true now.

[Aquila]

The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God. How? Oneness. He was one with the Father...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

If you walked the earth with Jesus, you'd get to know Him as a man. He'd teach. He'd laugh. He'd eat. He'd use the restroom. He'd sleep. He'd rest. He'd pray. He'd fast. He'd cry. He'd sweat. He'd bleed. However... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from Him. Something emanating from the core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation, speaking to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is... also God.

God did not reside in Christ as a vehicle. God resided in and permeated Christ's very being. A Oneness so complete, so majestic, and so divine that in Christ it can be said that God became a man... and that said man was also God.

No other religion elevates Christ to such an infinite height of majesty and honor. No other religion expresses Christ's true person to such an infinite degree. Most religions merely make Christ a prophet. No... Christ was not just a prophet. Christ was the human tabernacle of God Himself. To deny this imperils the soul... and reduces Christ to being either a lunatic or a liar.

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus. He will judge Krishna. He will judge Buddha. He will judge Mohammed. He will judge Nanak. He will judge the followers of every false prophet and madman. He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God. How? Oneness. He was one with the Father...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

If you walked the earth with Jesus, you'd get to know Him as a man. He'd teach. He'd laugh. He'd eat. He'd use the restroom. He'd sleep. He'd rest. He'd pray. He'd fast. He'd cry. He'd sweat. He'd bleed. However... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from Him. Something emanating from the core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation, speaking to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is... also God.

God did not reside in Christ as a vehicle. God resided in and permeated Christ's very being. A Oneness so complete, so majestic, and so divine that in Christ it can be said that God became a man... and that said man was also God.

No other religion elevates Christ to such an infinite height of majesty and honor. No other religion expresses Christ's true person to such an infinite degree. Most religions merely make Christ a prophet. No... Christ was not just a prophet. Christ was the human tabernacle of God Himself. To deny this imperils the soul... and reduces Christ to being either a lunatic or a liar.

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus. He will judge Krishna. He will judge Buddha. He will judge Mohammed. He will judge Nanak. He will judge the followers of every false prophet and madman. He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one.

The famous passage: John 10:30.

What does ONE (Greek word HEN) mean?

John 11

52 and not for the nation only, but that also the children of God, who have been scattered abroad, he may gather together into one. If this word word (HEN - ONE) means what you say it means then that means that somehow the people of God are all the same individual. It does not.

John 17: (Interestingly enough, Jesus who you say is proven to be God in the book of John, is praying to God in John 17 but not a one of you have ever explained this or brought this up)

11 and no more am I in the world, and these are in the world, and I come unto Thee. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, whom Thou hast given to me, that they may be one as we

Same word - HEN - ONE - does NOT mean that each disciple is the same as the other disciple. It is used to show sameness in purpose/beliefs/feelings/goals (which I believe we all agree that Jesus was same in purpose with God)

Again in John 17 - here Jesus himself explains what (HEN - ONE) means which is much closer to what I believe it means than what you believe it means:

21 that they all may be one, as Thou Father [art] in me, and I in Thee; that they also in us may be one, that the world may believe that Thou didst send me. ONE in US? The disciples were gods also? By your logic they are (speaking of peril yah? but by mine they are not)

22 `And I, the glory that thou hast given to me, have given to them, that they may be one as we are one;

23 I in them, and Thou in me, that they may be perfected into one, and that the world may know that Thou didst send me, and didst love them as Thou didst love me.

Summary:

"I and my father are one" does not mean that they are the same entity. It means that they are two different distinct entities with completely common goals and purposes - this does not make Jesus God any more than becoming ONE makes the disciples Peter the same as the Disciple John.

Another example: 1 Cor 6:16

16 have ye not known that he who is joined to the harlot is one body? `for they shall be -- saith He -- the two for one flesh.'

17 And he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit;

Being joined as ONE to your wife which is the reference here does not make you a wife any more than being joined as ONE to God makes you a god.

With that said I believe I saw you post He will judge all men

Not what your book says. Book says many will judge. I will let you find the passages because I think you (not just you, all of you) need to study it more.

Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years

Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

We already went through this Prax

Rev 1:1 A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, (God gave to Jesus? But but but they are the same) to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify [it], having sent through his messenger to his servant John

Rev 22:6 And he said to me, `These words [are] stedfast and true, and the Lord God of the holy prophets did send His messenger to shew to His servants the things that it behoveth to come quickly

Rev 22:16 I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!

The verses in the last chapter mirror the verses in the first chapter. They still refer to Jesus and God as two separate entities and you can always take the time to not skip what the "preacher" skipped and explain why (2) physical visions of Heaven put Jesus on the spot where He himself said He would be, in one sitting on the right hand of God and in the other taking a scroll out of God's hand and I sure do have another to toss out but I was thinking one of you, since you're edumacated and I'm not, would sure bring it up.

Nobody denies God gave something to Jesus nor that they are distinct somehow. BTW none of your verses implies or says "separate".

And "His messenger" refers to the angel..the same angel John says God and Jesus sent.

[SRM]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God. How? Oneness. He was one with the Father...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

If you walked the earth with Jesus, you'd get to know Him as a man. He'd teach. He'd laugh. He'd eat. He'd use the restroom. He'd sleep. He'd rest. He'd pray. He'd fast. He'd cry. He'd sweat. He'd bleed. However... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from Him. Something emanating from the core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation, speaking to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is... also God.

God did not reside in Christ as a vehicle. God resided in and permeated Christ's very being. A Oneness so complete, so majestic, and so divine that in Christ it can be said that God became a man... and that said man was also God.

No other religion elevates Christ to such an infinite height of majesty and honor. No other religion expresses Christ's true person to such an infinite degree. Most religions merely make Christ a prophet. No... Christ was not just a prophet. Christ was the human tabernacle of God Himself. To deny this imperils the soul... and reduces Christ to being either a lunatic or a liar.

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus. He will judge Krishna. He will judge Buddha. He will judge Mohammed. He will judge Nanak. He will judge the followers of every false prophet and madman. He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one.

Where is the OT foundation for the ideal God becoming his own Messiah? Did Moses REALLY teach such an ideal?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Nobody denies God gave something to Jesus nor that they are distinct somehow. BTW none of your verses implies or says "separate".

And "His messenger" refers to the angel..the same angel John says God and Jesus sent.

Some folks just cannot comprehend what Oneness proposes, and they think they are shooting it down. :-/

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

You serious? I can do that too. There's two alpha and omega's. Good grief mfblume.

Polytheist. lol

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Polytheist. lol

Profit. Moneychanger.

"'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."…

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Nobody denies God gave something to Jesus nor that they are distinct somehow. BTW none of your verses implies or says "separate".

And "His messenger" refers to the angel..the same angel John says God and Jesus sent.

Really Prax? Did you read them all?

One: From Revelation

6And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
7And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Two: Jesus, from Luke (but there is more than one example of Jesus saying this)

But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

Three: From Daniel

"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.

Four: From Mark

19S o then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

There are many more of these examples. Specific, concise, no ABC "helpful" $10 interpretation of a two-bit profit needed.

Separate entities, in separate physical locations, at the same point in time. That took 5 minutes. Do you need some more examples? Innocently wondering.