End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[ILG]

Boy,some of you spend so much time fighting this as if it were the gospel itself. What are you gaining by fighting this? What is God gaining?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

1 Cor. 14:34, 1 Cor. 14:35 - the two verses where it says a woman shall not "speak"... (or according to RDP... preach)

The word speak here is:

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2980: λαλέω

laleó: to talk
Original Word: λαλέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: laleó
Phonetic Spelling: (lal-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I speak, say
Definition: (I talk, chatter in classical Greek, but in NT a more dignified word) I speak, say.


NASB Translation
made (1), proclaiming (1), said (6), say (5), saying (7), says (2), speak (95), speak forth (1), speaking (54), speaks (25), spoke (44), spoken (38), stating (1), talked (1), talking (5), tell (1), telling (1), things spoken (2), told (7), uttered (1), whispered* (1).

λαλεῖν (lalein) — 21 Occurrences
Matthew 12:22 V-PNA
GRK: τὸν κωφὸν λαλεῖν καὶ βλέπειν
NAS: that the mute man spoke and saw.
KJV: dumb both spake and saw.
INT: the mute spoke and saw

Matthew 12:34 V-PNA
GRK: δύνασθε ἀγαθὰ λαλεῖν πονηροὶ ὄντες
NAS: evil, speak what is good?
KJV: being evil, speak good things? for
INT: are you able good things to speak evil being

Mark 1:34 V-PNA
GRK: οὐκ ἤφιεν λαλεῖν τὰ δαιμόνια
NAS: the demons to speak, because
KJV: the devils to speak, because
INT: not he allowed to speak the demons

Mark 7:37 V-PNA
GRK: τοὺς ἀλάλους λαλεῖν
NAS: to hear and the mute to speak.
KJV: and the dumb to speak.
INT: the mute to speak

Mark 12:1 V-PNA
GRK: ἐν παραβολαῖς λαλεῖν Ἀμπελῶνα ἄνθρωπος
NAS: And He began to speak to them in parables:
INT: in parables to say A vineyard a man

Luke 4:41 V-PNA
GRK: εἴα αὐτὰ λαλεῖν ὅτι ᾔδεισαν
NAS: them, He would not allow them to speak, because
KJV: them not to speak: for they knew
INT: he allowed them to speak because they knew

Luke 7:15 V-PNA
GRK: καὶ ἤρξατο λαλεῖν καὶ ἔδωκεν
NAS: up and began to speak. And [Jesus] gave
KJV: and began to speak. And he delivered
INT: and began to speak and he gave

John 8:26 V-PNA
GRK: περὶ ὑμῶν λαλεῖν καὶ κρίνειν
NAS: many things to speak and to judge
KJV: I have many things to say and to judge
INT: concerning you to say and to judge

Acts 2:4 V-PNA
GRK: καὶ ἤρξαντο λαλεῖν ἑτέραις γλώσσαις
NAS: and began to speak with other
KJV: and began to speak with other tongues,
INT: and began to speak with other tongues

Acts 4:17 V-PNA
GRK: αὐτοῖς μηκέτι λαλεῖν ἐπὶ τῷ
NAS: let us warn them to speak no longer
KJV: them, that they speak henceforth
INT: them no longer to speak in the

Acts 4:20 V-PNA
GRK: ἠκούσαμεν μὴ λαλεῖν
NAS: stop speaking about what
KJV: but speak the things which
INT: heard not to speak

Acts 4:29 V-PNA
GRK: παρρησίας πάσης λαλεῖν τὸν λόγον
NAS: that Your bond-servants may speak Your word
KJV: all boldness they may speak thy word,
INT: boldness all to speak the word

Acts 5:40 V-PNA
GRK: παρήγγειλαν μὴ λαλεῖν ἐπὶ τῷ
NAS: them and ordered them not to speak in the name
KJV: that they should not speak in the name
INT: they commanded [them] not to speak in the

Acts 11:15 V-PNA
GRK: ἄρξασθαί με λαλεῖν ἐπέπεσεν τὸ
NAS: And as I began to speak, the Holy
KJV: I began to speak, the Holy Ghost
INT: beginning I to speak fell the

Romans 15:18 V-PNA
GRK: τολμήσω τι λαλεῖν ὧν οὐ
NAS: For I will not presume to speak of anything
KJV: dare to speak of any
INT: will I dare anything to speak of what not

1 Corinthians 14:5 V-PNA
GRK: πάντας ὑμᾶς λαλεῖν γλώσσαις μᾶλλον
NAS: that you all spoke in tongues,
KJV: that ye all spake with tongues, but
INT: all you to speak with tongues rather

1 Corinthians 14:34 V-PNA
GRK: ἐπιτρέπεται αὐταῖς λαλεῖν ἀλλὰ ὑποτασσέσθωσαν
NAS: for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject
KJV: unto them to speak; but
INT: it is allowed to them to speak but to be in submission

1 Corinthians 14:35 V-PNA
GRK: ἐστιν γυναικὶ λαλεῖν ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ
NAS: for a woman to speak in church.
KJV: for women to speak in
INT: it is for women to speak in church

1 Corinthians 14:39 V-PNA
GRK: καὶ τὸ λαλεῖν μὴ κωλύετε
NAS: and do not forbid to speak in tongues.
KJV: forbid not to speak with tongues.
INT: and to speak not do forbid

Philippians 1:14 V-PNA
GRK: τοῦ θεοῦ λαλεῖν
NAS: courage to speak the word
KJV: bold to speak the word
INT: of God to speak

1 Thessalonians 1:8 V-PNA
GRK: ἔχειν ἡμᾶς λαλεῖν τι
NAS: no need to say anything.
KJV: need not to speak any thing.
INT: to have for us to have to say anything

Not one of these above scriptures use the word preach to define "speak" λαλεῖν (lalein) as PREACH... sorry, try again lol...

LOL - You just revealed ONCE AGAIN that you have no earthly clue what you're doing ! You do it EVERYTIME you try to wax exegetical!


First, you completely omitted the actual lexical definition of "PREACH" - which I have ALREADY SPECIFICALLY quoted in this thread (&, as usual, you totally ignored). Ummm, it's called "selective-sources" or, the "Fallacy of Neglected Aspect" (go learn what that meaneth !).


Next, I stated that the KJV translates this same Greek verb as "preach" 6 times elsewhere - so, anyone can reference the verses that do NOT translate this verb as "preach" - all the while ignoring the passages that do !


A Greek-professor tutor of mine told me that this word means both "utter words" or "preach" (in addition to the actual lexical data that states the same thing - & you completely omitted)!


Once again, you have no earthly clue what you're talking about - which you've demonstrated over & over (& just did again) !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Lol... well I guess you don't think a woman can open her mouth to say anything good at all. It seems as if you think... "if a woman opens her mouth, she must of course be instructing a man on what to do, and therefore anything she says is not of value, and I will not listen."

That is really sad.



I've NEVER said there is a scripture that shows women expounding from the scriptures. Why are you locked into that thinking?

I've just explained to you, that apparently a woman, according to Paul, should not teach from the scriptures to MEN. But Paul NEVER said a woman could not preach. Nowhere. We've defined preach through the lexicons before as telling the good news, or sharing the gospel. Acts 8:4 shows that both men and women went preaching or sharing the gospel as they were scattered.

Why are you so against a woman sharing the gospel, as in a woman preacher, missionary, or evangelist? I'm very serious that you are misguided into claiming a "woman preacher" as going against scripture, when you cannot produce one scripture that says a woman can't share the gospel, or preach the gospel!

The verses that say a woman can't speak do not mean a woman can never speak, or preach, but that they are to be silent and listen without chatter when others are speaking.

Despite all the colors, emoticons, and pages and pages of lexicon material.... there still remains that there has been no scripture provided specifically using the word euaggelizó, that says a woman cannot preach (or to announce good news) If you've got one.... SHARE IT PLEASE... and settle this everlasting thread once and for all... lol

In reality.... it appears you stand with Paul on the women teachers,(for one so intent on taking scripture literally).... but you don't have one single scripture to stand on that says a woman cannot share, preach, or tell the good news of the gospel!!!!

LOL - Apparently you cannot read plain English - I already showed you where EVERY-SINGLE ministerial office in the 5-Fold ministry appears in the MASCULINE gender & NEVER in the "feminine".



Ignore & scorn it until Jesus comes - it'll still be there in eternity !


Back a little later!


!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

Boy,some of you spend so much time fighting this as if it were the gospel itself. What are you gaining by fighting this? What is God gaining?

lol... that is so true...

[ILG]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

lol... that is so true...

Well, I guess I understand why the women fight it....it's personal, but I don't see what the guys who fight against this are gaining!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

Well, I guess I understand why the women fight it....it's personal, but I don't see what the guys who fight against this are gaining!

For me, it was good to clarify that the "silent" passages regarding women and church written by Paul, didn't mean a women could never speak out in church.

I have no intentions of being a woman preacher or men-teacher, lol. I'm content to share the gospel wherever I go, without needing to have a label for myself.

Also, it is important that Sis. Alvear's calling not be debased like it has been, simply because of men who refuse to see that the calling to be a preacher of the gospel was given to all who received the spirit, not just the men.

Despite RDP's constant wagering, there is no specific verse prohibiting women to preach, only that they cannot wield authority over men. So, if they preach the gospel in the right attitude... they can and have been used, and will continue to be used mightily by God.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Pliny wrote to Trajan at the beginning of the second century that he had subjected women to the torture in persecution that he might extort confession: "Ex duabus aucillis quæ ministræ dicebantur." Evidently one of these nouns, ancilla, is the common designation of handmaid, and the other, ministra, the official name of a female servant. And this term translates the Greek diakonoV in patristic Latin. [5]

The patristic Latin could be translated: "I have judged it necessary to obtain information by torture from two servicing women (ancillae) called by them 'deaconesses' (ministrae)." [6] This may be the first reference to female deaconesses. ( This is found in almost all church history books.)

Without arguing over what Pliny said, so what? Doctrine does NOT come by pagan historians. It comes by the word of God. David cheated on his wife, that doesn't make it right. Abraham lied, that doesn't make it right. Even if a female somewhere in history was found to be a Bishop or a Deacon that does NOT mean God approves. The Bible is clear, Bishops and Deacons are the sole responsibility of men.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

For me, it was good to clarify that the "silent" passages regarding women and church written by Paul, didn't mean a women could never speak out in church.

I have no intentions of being a woman preacher or men-teacher, lol. I'm content to share the gospel wherever I go, without needing to have a label for myself.

Also, it is important that Sis. Alvear's calling not be debased like it has been, simply because of men who refuse to see that the calling to be a preacher of the gospel was given to all who received the spirit, not just the men.

Despite RDP's constant wagering, there is no specific verse prohibiting women to preach, only that they cannot wield authority over men. So, if they preach the gospel in the right attitude... they can and have been used, and will continue to be used mightily by God.

Last things first - Yes, there are numerous passages in the Bible which EXPLICITLY FORBID a woman to "teach-preach" to men in the church - & it could not POSSIBLY be clearer. The grammar & context are crystal-clear on the matter & it's almost as absurd as a Christian arguing over the existence of God to read these plain verses - then say "There is no verse that says that !" Kinda' like someone reading a passage which says "You shall not steal" - then saying "There's no verse in the Bible which says a person cannot steal"



Next, to demonstrate the great lengths to which you go to eradicate the inspired grammar of the text - when shown that the verb "teach" lexically defines as "to expound from the Scriptures" virtually every-single time it's mentioned (over 200 times in the NT) - you say, "Oh, well, you just stretched that meaning" - Say whatttttttt ?????? I merely copied the Greek apparatus from a very-very credible Grammar & showed the normative usage of this verb in the Bible - hardly "stretching" anything .


Moreover, y'all have been caught almost EVERY-SINGLE time y'all try to reference a lexicon or the Greek text making outright horrid & humiliating (unbeknownst to y'all of course) blunders. What's the response? Instead of conceding error & moving on - Y'all ignore it as if it never happened & - in most instances keep spewing out the same error....Shame-Shame !



I have repeatedly said in this thread that I believe that both men & women should win the lost & that I honor & respect Sis. Alvear's love for souls, her hard work on the mission field, & have even sent them money (in fact, I don't doubt that God called her to reach out to the lost people of Brazil). However, when it comes to the issue of "women-teachers-preachers" in the church to men - she is advocating error - & I will ALWAYS lift my voice against false doctrine in the church.


Finally, I will say that when the emotions die down you & I do not seem all that far apart on this issue. But, at this point it has simply been largely reduced to a rehash of the same ol' arguments & questions that have been addressed over & over & over & over earlier on (& apparently some have not taken the time to read). Just kinda' gets redundant & largely a waste of time after awhile - but I will continue to respond as able (usually late at night).



The issue remains (& will ALWAYS remain) a fellowship issue with us. I cannot fellowship people in good conscience who so stubbornly & defiantly shake their fist in the face of God's Word & tell Him that His clear statements do not mean exactly what they say they mean (e.g., I Timothy 2:11-3.15)....Especially when soooooo much evidence has been provided to ANYONE honest in heart. This is not just a misunderstanding issue - but rather a moral issue & major character defect. Yes, me & MANY-MANY-MANY preachers I know would get up & walk out on a woman if she got up to "teach-preach" to a mixed congregation of men & women in the church . We cannot openly defy the crystal-clear Scriptures like that.


Just making myself understood a little clearer (hopefully ). God Bless anyway - will check back in later tonight (Wednesday) for more fun ! Have a good day (& I mean that sincerely)!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rdp

LOL - Apparently you cannot read plain English - I already showed you where EVERY-SINGLE ministerial office in the 5-Fold ministry appears in the MASCULINE gender & NEVER in the "feminine".



Ignore & scorn it until Jesus comes - it'll still be there in eternity !


Back a little later!


!

Are you arguing because Apostle, Prophet, Teacher, Pastor and Evangelist are masculine nouns they can't include women?

[Praxeas]

Teaching and Preaching are not the same things

If a woman can't preach, then we need to make sure they never tell their friends or neighbors about the gospel.

Unfortunately we tend to define "preach" as what a man does in church when he reads 1 verse out of context and then tells anecdotal stories for 40 min or so.