Bott '14

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by n david

Cause, you know, that totally compares to calling a fellow minister an idiot who needs brain surgery during a message at a well known, crowded, church leaders conference.

Um...it completely compares. That was a terrible thread, and there were a lot of liberals who felt at liberty to insult Apostolic women in an ugly manner to their heart's content. Without ever a retraction or apology, I might add.

I'm glad that thread was never recreated here.

***Correction: Apparently "Nahum" tried back in 2007, but it fizzled out after 3 pages. The thread at FCF was much longer than that, and far more malicious.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

I'm not twisting anything. You're the one spinning like a top.

JA's referring to Maxwell...no, he's referring to the quote made flesh...scratch that, it was a typo...he's referring to Maxwell.

Round, round, spinnin round, she's spinnin round...

David, Again, get your facts straight. This is Jason's quote to me, that you are referring to.

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

PO you're spinning it like a top.

The fact is JA attacked Gleason. Everyone knew it.

It was crass, arrogant, uncalled for, and out of place.

He is responding to my post where I am not 100% sure who JA is referring to. I haven't changed my story, which is what you are accusing me of doing, which is a lie on your part.

I refuse to respond to you further as you are not being honest.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

Since an apology has apparently been made, I think we should christen tomorrow, January 31st, "JA Appreciation Day." We can celebrate it by calling each other dirtbags, scumbags, jerks, fools, idiots who need brain surgery, and other affectionate terms of endearment.

Now you are acting like an idiot.

[KeptByTheWord]

I have some very mean, and hateful things to say. I write them down on a piece of paper. I take the paper to a top of a mountain above a village where many people live. I tear the paper into pieces, and then I throw the torn papers to the wind. As I watch the wind catch and carry the pieces of paper, suddenly I have a change of heart, and in a panic, I begin to run around and try to gather up the pieces of paper that I had just thrown to the wind. In vain, I realize that the wind had taken the things I had said much further, and farther than I ever intended them to go, and no amount of effort on my part would ever undo the fact that now my words were scattered forever, never to be taken back.

The above is a parable worthy of consideration in this discussion, I believe. Yes, you may apologize regarding something said in a public place, yet a simple apology does not undo the damage that the words have caused. It is impossible to go around to each person who heard, and make right the damage. It's like trying to retrieve torn pieces of paper from the wind.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I know it sounded like he did call SG an idiot, but I've listened to it several times. Let me write it out to discuss it and why I am not 100% certain he is calling SG an idiot. Being that he apologized, it really is a moot point, but I can't get away from how I feel when I hear it, and of course, I could be very wrong being the consensus is that he did insult SG.

"And I don't know which one of you guys said it, and I know that came from John Maxwell because I heard it. Whoever it is, don't get offended, but that junk I heard today about, 'Well, if you have a bunch of hell and chaos and crises in your church, after 3 years being there, it's your fault.' You're an idiot. I've got new dingbats coming in all the time. I'm not responsible for those wackos."

When I hear this, I hear louder than anything - JA establishes that what he is about to say is referencing who he knows said it in the first place. "I KNOW that came from JM". So, he is attributing the quote to someone other than the pastor.

He goes on to quote the quote that had been given that day, "Well, if you have a bunch of hell and chaos and crises in your church, after 3 years being there, it's your fault. You're an idiot."

Now, with him stating that he knows where the quote came from and then quoting it, is he calling Maxwell the idiot or the minister the idiot for repeating it.

When I hear it, he is calling Maxwell the idiot. That's just my take.

And of course, being that an offense was taken, which he apologized for, I am not trying to gloss over him insulting either man in public. I just can't be 100% who he is talking to. So, in that, I agree with Sis. Alvear, who was also unclear.

Only problem is saying he's talking about Maxwell blatantly ignores a major part of the quote:

I don't know which one of you guys said it and I know that came from John Maxwell because I heard it. Whoever it is, don't get offended...You're an idiot.

He not only addresses people in attendance, but after the little tidbit about JM, he reaffirms by once again addressing the one's on the platform.

Was Maxwell sitting on the platform? It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. Why would JA say "you're an idiot?" "YOU'RE an idiot." Not, "Maxwell's an idiot," not even "he's an idiot."

Had JA said, "HE'S an idiot," I'd be somewhat more inclined to believe it could be Maxwell, even though he was addressing people on the platform. He didn't. He said, "you're."

Unless Maxwell was present, sitting on the platform, he was not talking about Maxwell.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

David, Again, get your facts straight. This is Jason's quote to me, that you are referring to.

That's weird...I never mentioned Jason or his post there, did I?

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I refuse to respond to you further as you are not being honest.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

[/INDENT]The above is a parable worthy of consideration in this discussion, I believe. Yes, you may apologize regarding something said in a public place, yet a simple apology does not undo the damage that the words have caused. It is impossible to go around to each person who heard, and make right the damage. It's like trying to retrieve torn pieces of paper from the wind.

KBTW,

I agree, often the damage can't be undone. Jeff has told our kids a similar story about feathers and a feather pillow many times. However, the damage also shouldn't be magnified purposely by anyone--for any reason, and IMO that is what was done with the immediate public sharing of the video on youtube and the Facebook uproar by non-interested parties that followed. "Exposing" people for wrongdoing isn't our job as Christians. Restoring people who are "taken in a fault" is.

Further, while an apology doesn't necessarily negate the damage done by careless words, it also is pretty much all that can be done after the fact. We aren't supposed to purposely hold onto a grudge to teach people about the "damage" they've caused. That lesson comes more organically, in other ways, and shouldn't be at our hand, purposely, ever.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

That's weird...I never mentioned Jason or his post there, did I?

That's weird, how easy was it to find the post that stated - spin like a top to know who you were referencing.

You are being pitiful today.

[n david]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Um...it completely compares. That was a terrible thread, and there were a lot of liberals who felt at liberty to insult Apostolic women in an ugly manner to their heart's content. Without ever a retraction or apology, I might add.

I'm glad that thread was never recreated here.

***Correction: Apparently "Nahum" tried back in 2007, but it fizzled out after 3 pages. The thread at FCF was much longer than that, and far more malicious.

Who's talking about a thread? PO mentioned making fun of UPC, making fun of the women (BDW), making fun of how youth dressed at conferences...

I don't see a reference to any thread. I see things mentioned by PO, which IMO, do not compare to a minister publicly attacking a fellow minister.

People make fun of each other all the time...even PO does with her politics!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

Only problem is saying he's talking about Maxwell blatantly ignores a major part of the quote:

"Whoever it is, don't get offended."

Why would he say that? IMO, he says it because he set out that he identifies the original statement did not come from the minister present, then encourages the minister not to be offended when he insults Maxwell's quote.

That is how I am reading JA. But since you are on a witch hunt, you may have another perspective. I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt. Also, having heard him enough to know his style and how he responds to things, that is the only way I am able to view JA on the clip.

Someone gave me several of his books and a CD case with, I don't know, 15 or more sermons. I listened to all of them twice. He has a debt of experience I respect. Just not going to bash him. His faith in the miraculous is inspiring.