Platform Standards

[Abiding Now]

No snarking! Well there goes the conversation.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

No snarking! Well there goes the conversation.

And the neighborhood!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi Sister,

When I don't like a particular thread I either give my opinion about the topic or just ignore it. If you have read what I said I have not said anyone is going to Hell for being clean shaven. Many Apostolics could testify they have heard it the other way around. One is NOT holy but rather rebellious if they have a beard.

Im not trying just to argue. Rather trying to weigh the platform standards of Apostolics in light of their overall doctrine. Specifically they use Duet. 22:5 to preach women INTO HELL if they wear pants. This of course is based on the law of Moses.

However under that same law Lev. 21:5 men are taught to not cut (shave) the edges of your beard!

So I am pointing out the inconsistent nature of this kind of teaching. If we ARE UNDER the law of Moses there is certainly a case for the Duet. 22:5 teaching. By the same standard there would be a strong case to teach and ENCOURAGE men not to shave.

Rather Apostolic Preachers en masse teach if one does have a beard they are not holy enough to sit on their platform.

So in summation I feel this thread is necessary along with the ongoing discussions among the Apostolic community to hasten the day Apostolic ministers will drop standards that do not match those of the New Testament Church. Peace and love.

MtD,

In fairness, I've whined about platform standards from time to time myself.

I think where it becomes a problem for me is not the "raising awareness" part, but the part where the liberal view seems just as judgmental as the conservative view.

There are Christians who have beards and Christians who don't. Either party may have religious reasons behind their choices or it may be purely arbitrary and preferential. I don't think any of those things make one group more Christian, Apostolic or *better* than another. The same goes for any number of other preferences, practices and "platform standards."

An important example of respecting other believers is given in Acts 19. This passage is often used to illustrate the necessity of being baptized in Jesus' name (and appropriately so, IMO), but often another important point is missed. Paul respectfully refers to these men as "certain disciples." He doesn't refer to them as unbelievers, non-Christians, heathens, or by any other derogatory, divisive term. He doesn't accuse them of preaching or living according to "false doctrine." He simply talks to them about the things they don't know and leads them further down the path of conversion. The respect and acknowledgment he gives them even though they haven't been baptized in Jesus' name or so much as heard about the Holy Ghost is glaring to me.

If the modern church could give one another that same respect and approach differences just as pragmatically, we'd be a lot better off.

[Praxeas]

I never wear a suit and tie.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

MtD,

In fairness, I've whined about platform standards from time to time myself.

I think where it becomes a problem for me is not the "raising awareness" part, but the part where the liberal view seems just as judgmental as the conservative view.

There are Christians who have beards and Christians who don't. Either party may have religious reasons behind their choices or it may be purely arbitrary and preferential. I don't think any of those things make one group more Christian, Apostolic or *better* than another. The same goes for any number of other preferences, practices and "platform standards."

An important example of respecting other believers is given in Acts 19. This passage is often used to illustrate the necessity of being baptized in Jesus' name (and appropriately so, IMO), but often another important point is missed. Paul respectfully refers to these men as "certain disciples." He doesn't refer to them as unbelievers, non-Christians, heathens, or by any other derogatory, divisive term. He doesn't accuse them of preaching or living according to "false doctrine." He simply talks to them about the things they don't know and leads them further down the path of conversion. The respect and acknowledgment he gives them even though they haven't been baptized in Jesus' name or so much as heard about the Holy Ghost is glaring to me.

If the modern church could give one another that same respect and approach differences just as pragmatically, we'd be a lot better off.

I do not try to get anyone to wear a beard. My purpose has been to show we are not under the law of Moses.

There is truth in your example about Paul and Acts 19. Matter of fact that is more or less the way I deal with anyone I deal with. I meet regularly with Trinitarian and other type believers. I really try to show respect and love.

Sometimes the love is there but not so easy to show. Especially when you are trying to present truth and you are being assailed from all directions.

Don't get me wrong Im not saying I will compromise truth but there are times to accommodate thinking long term rather than short.

Nonetheless the trying to be kind and respectful approach is not always the way the Lord leads. Plenty of scripture will bear that out. Sometimes people seem to receive when the truth hits them strong!

[n david]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

An important example of respecting other believers is given in Acts 19. This passage is often used to illustrate the necessity of being baptized in Jesus' name (and appropriately so, IMO), but often another important point is missed. Paul respectfully refers to these men as "certain disciples." He doesn't refer to them as unbelievers, non-Christians, heathens, or by any other derogatory, divisive term. He doesn't accuse them of preaching or living according to "false doctrine." He simply talks to them about the things they don't know and leads them further down the path of conversion. The respect and acknowledgment he gives them even though they haven't been baptized in Jesus' name or so much as heard about the Holy Ghost is glaring to me.

If the modern church could give one another that same respect and approach differences just as pragmatically, we'd be a lot better off.

I agree. There's a pattern here, in that anyone who does not believe the doctrine of Michael the "Disciple," they are castigated for having false doctrine. This is why he can support a man like Bickle and group like IHOPKC who preach false, new age doctrine, yet be against any Apostolic/Pentecostal who preaches the truth, but has the audacity to have a platform standard.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

There is truth in your example about Paul and Acts 19. Matter of fact that is more or less the way I deal with anyone I deal with. I meet regularly with Trinitarian and other type believers. I really try to show respect and love.

Sometimes the love is there but not so easy to show. Especially when you are trying to present truth and you are being assailed from all directions.

Do you meet with people who have platform standards? Where's the "respect and love" for them? I've seen no love or respect in this thread for those who hold platform standards. Rather, you've called them "hypocrites," stated these Pastors "sin" by having platform standards, and claim they promote false doctrine. It's not truth you're presenting, it's your personal belief.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

No it is exposing the hypocrisy of Apostolic and other Ministers. Trying to make saints who have done nothing wrong less than holy on the basis of wearing a beard..

They pretend their clean shaven look is more holy than the beard.

Rather than a rant it is a teaching moment.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

No I am upset because they are still getting away with their hypocrisy to this very day.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

That's the point. They may not say they think its a sin but by refusing to allow someone into the ministry who has one they are fostering that it IS a sin.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well then why did you ask me this?

I am against it because it is false doctrine. Just as I discuss many other issues on this forum.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by n david

Do you meet with people who have platform standards? Where's the "respect and love" for them? I've seen no love or respect in this thread for those who hold platform standards. Rather, you've called them "hypocrites," stated these Pastors "sin" by having platform standards, and claim they promote false doctrine. It's not truth you're presenting, it's your personal belief.

I do have love for Apostolic Ministers. That's the very reason I am trying to wake them up. The love is easier to give than the respect.

I can hardly believe you said what I have presented here is "my personal belief".

It is THESE PLATFORM STANDARD preachers that are giving their own personal belief. Someone in this thread put it right. Those who wear a beard do it out of pride and vanity. I have heard more than one say that. Well according to them Jesus and the Apostles walked in vanity and pride. Please.

That of course has no more basis in truth than that all the clean shavers walk in pride and vanity and certainly NO SUPPORTING SCRIPTURE.

So in reality THEY preach their personal opinion and call it a matter of "preference".

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by n david

Oh good grief, it's not a standard....

It was in the church I was raised in.

[BalancedLife]

I was told by my former pastor that my beard was in direct rebellion of his teachings. Since he "prefers" those on the platform to be clean shaven, and it's in the handbook for leadership, his personal feelings are every man in the church needs to follow this "rule" even though they are not in position. His words were followers should reflect the beliefs of the leaders.

Have a beard or don't have a beard, I do not care, but don't push personal preferences on people as though they are the word of God or living in rebellion.