Platform Standards

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by Sasha

I have been attending a non-standards Pentecostal church for a few years now. After getting over the initial shock of seeing women, including my pastor's wife, on the platform in not only pants but jeans as well....

I no longer notice what people are wearing or what jewelry they have on or how short their hair might be. It just occurred to me that I haven't done that for a while now.

Our church has been a 'non-standards Pentecostal church for about 18 months now. It has been quite an adjustment for me but I am getting there.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819

I believe this is a good explanation from where Mike is coming from. And it is the truth. I wish every Apostolic Leader would take Posts like this to heart and quit majoring on the minors.

N David wrote,

You don't think what Michael is posting about here is majoring on a minor? Goes both ways, you know

Yes, it goes both ways. It is minor compared to the Gospel, so is womens clothing. Mike is showing the hypocrisy of forbidding one scripture in the Bible and not accepting another of equal importance in the old time, but neither of them is of any concern after the cross.

Here is Jesus minoring on the Scribes and Pharisees clothing, to show their pride and to show their hypocrisy.

Matthew 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Isn't the “Platform Standard” to be seen of men? To show that those on the Platform are a little holier than others.?

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

are you sure they still do from the pulpit and are still UPC?

I never hear facial hair mentioned at all, not from the pulpit in church meetings nor at Camp

Positive. We have 2 men who recently joined our church because they both have facial hair and their UPC pastor preached that this facial hair is sinful AND called them into his office to tell them that goatees are worn by demons and that they wouldn't want a visiting preacher to think they were backsliding and preach at them for their facial hair. One man left the following week; the other man hung around for a few more weeks until he was told he had to leave for being in rebellion. And this was to a guy not even involved in platform ministry.

[houston]

demons have goatees

[n david]

Originally Posted by renee819

Isn't the Platform Standard to be seen of men? To show that those on the Platform are a little holier than others.?

Not always. You'll always have the ones who make it into a type of doctrine, but for many I know it's the same as an employer asking it's employees to look presentable.

As I stated before, my non-upc church Pastor and I recently had a meeting to discuss music and platform ministry. He wanted to re-emphasize what people call platform standards because we had guys coming to play drums and guitars wearing printed t-shirts and either ripped jeans or shorts and flip flops.

There is nothing wrong with asking people to dress a certain way while being front and center in front of everyone.

BTW, our bass player has a full, but well trimmed beard, as does the youth pastor/associate minister.

[n david]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Michael, why do you insist on using such strong language? A "lie" implies intent by the speaker to deceive. When you call something a lie, you aren't leaving room for another person's honest understanding of scripture or scriptural principle to be different than yours and still right in their opinion.

It's really frustrating when Christians refuse to give other Christians room to be sincerely wrong without it being a sin, hypocrisy, lying or false doctrine. Those are strong, incendiary terms and it's terms like that which lead to major division in the church instead of unity. Why not give space for others to be living authentically according to what they believe, even if you find their views to be disagreeable? Why accuse people of dishonesty and hypocrisy?

Amen!

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That's funny. I don't have that problem and I never left. And suits? I've never in my life considered that a "standard"

You don't know what your missing!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Positive. We have 2 men who recently joined our church because they both have facial hair and their UPC pastor preached that this facial hair is sinful AND called them into his office to tell them that goatees are worn by demons and that they wouldn't want a visiting preacher to think they were backsliding and preach at them for their facial hair. One man left the following week; the other man hung around for a few more weeks until he was told he had to leave for being in rebellion. And this was to a guy not even involved in platform ministry.

Yes exactly. Oneness has turned away many people. I hope it doesn't turn them off to the truth of who Jesus is yet I know a lot of damage has been done.

[Arphaxad]

Originally Posted by houston

demons have goatees

Yep, they trim them with scissors so we can't use evil scissors anymore. Btw, how do they see themselves in a mirror? Maybe they go to the local demon barber, oops, now barbershops are evil.

[shag]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Right, which points to a cultural problem; not any sort of scriptural problem.



My only question about this situation: Did your pastor/leadership teach that having a beard was a sin? Because, if so, then it would indeed be hypocritical to allow it for any reason. However, if it's just one of those "let's look nice on the platform" type things, and that was lifted temporarily for the sake of the annual drama, I don't see the hypocrisy. I do see a major problem with you refusing to shave it back off in defiance of a known, established rule and expecting that to not cause an issue. I know that my pastor, at that point, would have a problem with the person's attitude--not the specifics of the rule.





Michael, why do you insist on using such strong language? A "lie" implies intent by the speaker to deceive. When you call something a lie, you aren't leaving room for another person's honest understanding of scripture or scriptural principle to be different than yours and still right in their opinion.

It's really frustrating when Christians refuse to give other Christians room to be sincerely wrong without it being a sin, hypocrisy, lying or false doctrine. Those are strong, incendiary terms and it's terms like that which lead to major division in the church instead of unity. Why not give space for others to be living authentically according to what they believe, even if you find their views to be disagreeable? Why accuse people of dishonesty and hypocrisy?

It was not taught as being sin to have facial hair, rather it was simply not allowed in order to participate in ministry, be it a teacher, leadership role of a particular dept., platform rule....
Just like it could've been a requirement rule for all men to grow some facial hair in order to participate in all said ministries....
One is no more acceptable than the other, or atleast should not be.

If a leader makes a personal preference rule that all men should grow facial hair
In order to be in any kind of church ministry, and a man decides it's not biblical to require that, must he do it anyway to be in ministry of Gods Kindom via that local assembly?

I follow what you're saying about "breaking the rules", but I must ask, to what extent must one obey unbiblical rules and requirements to be used of God?

To those that have simply said "if u don't like the rules, hit the road", I say "guess again pal, the church I belong to is as much my church as it is anyones church, I grew up in it, I have good friends in it, I don't know of a better one, and I like the pastor too, so I'll stay put, thank u". But I also say there comes a time to be a Berean and search to see if there's any unbiblical nonsense hindering the advancement of Gods Kindom, and requiring all men to grow what facial hair they can for ministry is no different than requiring all men to shave, (except there might actually be a little bible for it).

Where would we be if past reformers just did what many(not all) menaGog want, "pay me your tithes, attend everytime the doors are open, obey my words without questioning me cause God will take care if it if I get out of line etc..?
We'd all still be in a Catholic Church.


What I did was to make a point of the fact that it is unreasonable and talking out of both sides of the mouth, to desire most men to grow or have fake beards to look more apostolic genuine in a drama, then turn right around and require them all to have none to be mordern day apostolic genuine, esp saying "He's the same yesterday, today ...." Is Jesus acceptable in our churches?
Did I go against a pastors personally preferred unbiblical required rules to make the point? Yes I did, and I think that's where some of us have differing opinions. Some would say "you're wrong (and defiant) for breaking the rules that the man in charge made, no matter what the rule. Others like myself would say, " when it has been discussed in times past by others(and it has) that unbiblical personal preferences have no place as a requirement of Gods ministries, and ignored, then it's time to stand for truth.

Again, where do the umbilical personal preference requirements stop? If a man in charge decides based on preference that all men have to grow facial hair and never put a razor to their face again in order to be in ANY kind of the many ministries, and a guy disagrees w that requirement, what happens? How far does it go with personal preferences of what our idea of modern day Christians should look like, or not allow God to work thru them?



Ftr, (few yrs later) where I attend men's facial hair is now a little more common, not that much of an issue now, but is still forbidden and not allowing God to work thru a man in most ministries, except for driving a church van I think. But hey, that's progress...