Tongues at conversion vs faith???

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Wrong again my friend........surely you understand that from verses 4-6 he is speaking of gifts, in verse 7 he speaks of THE manifestation of the THE Spirit (from which all other gifts come) it is clear that he continues talking about gifts of the Spirit in verse 8. Word of Wisdom, and Word of Knowledge are both gifts of THE Spirit. Again he did not say manifestationS he simply said THE manifestation. (Context along with rules of grammar make a difference)

The manifestation of the spirit is a reference to the gifts of the spirit.

Do you know wht manifestion means?

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by jfrog

The manifestation of the spirit is a reference to the gifts of the spirit.

Do you know wht manifestion means?

Yes.....and if he had been referencing the "giftS" (plural) he would have said one of/or the manifestations.....but instead he plainly said THE manifestation of the Spirit is given to all. To follow your logic.....every believer would have all of the gifts since you lump the one manifestation into any/all of the gifts....this would invalidate the rest of the chapter, because he clearly instructs that some have some gifts, others have different gifts, but all are from the same Spirit.

One MUST have THE Spirit to have one of the gifts of THE Spirit. What manifestation is universally seen when THE Spirit inhabits a man/woman?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Yes.....and if he had been referencing the "giftS" (plural) he would have said one of/or the manifestations.....but instead he plainly said THE manifestation of the Spirit is given to all. To follow your logic.....every believer would have all of the gifts since you lump the one manifestation into any/all of the gifts....this would invalidate the rest of the chapter, because he clearly instructs that some have some gifts, others have different gifts, but all are from the same Spirit.

One MUST have THE Spirit to have one of the gifts of THE Spirit. What manifestation is universally seen when THE Spirit inhabits a man/woman?

A manifestation is simply a visual representation. So verse 7 says: the visual representation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal. Verses 8 and on explain what forms the visual representation (manifestation) of the spirit can take. The manifestation of the spirit comes in the forms of the gifts of the spirit. This makes common sense, Logical sense and contextual sense...

I don't know what makes you think that phrase the manifestation of the spirit means that the manifestation of the spirit can only appear one way.

[pastor RICK]

bishoph your wasting your time ...agruing good solid doctrine with those that choose to close their eyes to it . knowing they surely know a better way //..

you have given very good accoiunt of the scriptures bishoph . continue on my friend!

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by jfrog

A manifestation is simply a visual representation. So verse 7 says: the visual representation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal. Verses 8 and on explain what forms the visual representation (manifestation) of the spirit can take. The manifestation of the spirit comes in the forms of the gifts of the spirit. This makes common sense, Logical sense and contextual sense...

I don't know what makes you think that phrase the manifestation of the spirit means that the manifestation of the spirit can only appear one way.

I will not continue this longterm.....I do believe it to be pointless, that said..... you continually speak in the plural....gifts/forms/manifestations....however the text in question is singular in construct. THE manifestation of THE Spirit. A manifestation is that which reveals, makes actual, and visual. It means to expose to view, make manifest, to show one's self, appear. According to Peter and those that traveled with him that ONE manifestation which he witnessed (and identified/confirmed that the gentiles had received the same experience/Spirit that he and the rest of the upper room attendees had) was "for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God."

In Acts 19 it is recorded that they spoke with tongues and prophesied when the Spirit came on them. In Acts 2, 10, & 19 tongues is the common experience. Many in your camp try to say these three instances were only because of three major events, I agree they are three major events and ALL of them have the same common manifestation of speaking with tongues. If there was ANY other way/doctrine approved by God or the early church, I would think at least one of the "major" events would have left out speaking with tongues.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by bishoph

I will not continue this longterm.....I do believe it to be pointless, that said..... you continually speak in the plural....gifts/forms/manifestations....however the text in question is singular in construct. THE manifestation of THE Spirit. A manifestation is that which reveals, makes actual, and visual. It means to expose to view, make manifest, to show one's self, appear. According to Peter and those that traveled with him that ONE manifestation which he witnessed (and identified/confirmed that the gentiles had received the same experience/Spirit that he and the rest of the upper room attendees had) was "for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God."

In Acts 19 it is recorded that they spoke with tongues and prophesied when the Spirit came on them. In Acts 2, 10, & 19 tongues is the common experience. Many in your camp try to say these three instances were only because of three major events, I agree they are three major events and ALL of them have the same common manifestation of speaking with tongues. If there was ANY other way/doctrine approved by God or the early church, I would think at least one of the "major" events would have left out speaking with tongues.

I know and i keep saying One manifestation of the spirit in many different forms.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I know and i keep saying One manifestation of the spirit in many different forms.

You must believe in the trinity too one God....many (three) persons

makes about as much since....when you start saying one manifestation but many different forms.

[PastorTLArt]

When discussing the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost". people tend to forget Jesus very own words on the matter, in most KJV they are written in red, Acts 1:8!

According to Acts 1:8, What did the Apostles receive? and Why?

If one studies the scriptures close enough they will be able to see the difference between the Holy Ghost indwelling a believer and the "Baptism in the Holy Ghost"!

[Praxeas]

I searched several translations but could only find one that used the word "indwelling" once.

However I believe Acts uses "baptized with the Holy Spirit" synonymously with "Filled", "poured" and "received" as well as "the gift of"

[renee819]

Bishop, You have it right.
I don't know why anyone can't see, that the 'gifts of the spirit' comes from that ONE SAME SPIRIT, which is the Holy Ghost.

Who gives the gifts? That same Lord, that gave of His Spirit, to those that believe Him. And of course His Spirit is the Holy Ghost, therefore the gifts, come from the Holy Ghost.

No Holy Ghost ---no gifts.

That is why, most denominal churches, say that tongues has ceased, as well as the gifts.
Those that say 'they are saved by faith' don't have enough faith to receive the Holy Ghost. And so their Pastors teach them that they already have it, and didn't know it.

In Cor. Paul is talking to those that had already received the Holy Ghost and reminding them that the 'gifts' come from “that same Spirit.” Vs, 8-9-11.

Bishop, come on over to the Thread, “Evolution of the Spirit” and help me talk to Adino. He doesn't believe me, maybe you can point out something that I haven't, that will help him to believe.