Selling Out to Cash In.... Ex-Apostolics...

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Pastor P......

I know of what I speak. I'm not a novice. I was born into this when you were still only a thought in the mind of God. I've traveled east to west, north to south and have talked to hundreds of men and women - pastors, missionaries, evangelists, and WEC officials and leaders and shakers in the movement. Things are shared when the guard is down and people are fellowshipping around a table that aren't when public position must be taken (and they must, I understand that).

Whether you agree with me is immaterial really although I appreciate your perspective and chiming in here. I don't think putdowns are necessary though.

Either we believe our own articles of faith, or we don't. If we don't lets dismantle the whole thing and start over. Trouble is, I believe what you call the PAJC doctrine with all of my heart. I could not be a part of something that watered that down.

BTW, I would never intentionally put you down. I respect you too much. I just disagree, that's all.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by H2H

Speaking of which..... There is no doubt this has long been an area needing clarification. How many do you think would sign on for a resolution that "clarfies" the AOF position??

"Whereas there have been questions as to what constitutes "Full Salvation" and whereas there have been questions as to when and where justification occurrs in the new believer, be it resolved that the membership of this organization wholeheartedly believes eternal damnation is the future of all Christians not experiencing the New Birth as we have defined and interpreted Acts 2:38 in it's entirety."

Only problem I have with it is the use of the word "Christians".

[H2H]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Only problem I have with it is the use of the word "Christians".

Astounding. I don't believe for one second the majority would be with you in this.

[H2H]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Only problem I have with it is the use of the word "Christians".

OK I am removing the capitalization of the word Christians and placing it in quotes.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by H2H

Astounding. I don't believe for one second the majority would be with you in this.

Then they need to find an organization that is Baptist - don't they?

[H2H]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Then they need to find an organization that is Baptist - don't they?

Uh .... I said YOU were in a minority. AMF??

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Either we believe our own articles of faith, or we don't. If we don't lets dismantle the whole thing and start over. Trouble is, I believe what you call the PAJC doctrine with all of my heart. I could not be a part of something that watered that down.

BTW, I would never intentionally put you down. I respect you too much. I just disagree, that's all.

Are you talking about the Statement of Faith?

That was worded in a way at the merger that both views - PAJC and PCI - could be comfortable with and live with. There was a tolerance present then that I wish was with you all still. That tolerance and acceptance of one another's differences is the reason the Merger took place at all.

So much to be said about all this. Some of you younger guys who came on the scene in a different generation don't understand some of the dynamics of all this I don't think. Where you're situated geographically enters into an overall understanding too of how things were and are today.

I appreciate you bro. I hear what you're saying.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I find this extremely hard to believe. If this were the case, the entire basis of our (UPC) fellowship would be a sham. You and Daniel can proclaim Apostolic heritage all you want, but the truth is your doctrine is a watered down - little bit-better-that-Baptist-view.

It's ridiculous to assert that a large percentage of UPC churches and ministers believe this junk. It's simply untrue.

But again, Pastor P, this is exactly what the UPCI was founded on...two groups of Apostolic men coming together, bringing their "different views" into the making of one "united Pentecostal" organization.

They coexisted, working and building that which you so grandly protect, until 1992...47 years of unity.

In my opinion, it is ridiculous to think that the departure of a few in '92 'cleaned house'.

I have a friend who lives in another state and called me last night. She said that in the area she lives, there are at least 15 churches...all UPCI, yet not all teaching the same.

It boggles my little mind that until a couple of years ago I never heard of Apostolics who didn't all speak the same voice, but was I ever out of the loop.

As a child I vividly remember Bro. OV coming to our church (I learned much later that he was 'PCI') and I don't recall horns or any such thing. I do remember a man preaching the Word.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by revrandy

It disturbs me when I see ex-apostolics on Televsion hawking money for the propagation of False Doctrine....

When I see ex-apostolic singers who turn their back on truth and claim anointing and propagate false doctrine...

Seems like they "sold out" to Cash in...

Claiming that their new found wealth & popularity is a sign of God's Blessings....

What think Ye??

Basically you seem to be judging people who have left Acts 2:38 and are now promoting repentance and forgiveness as people who are in it for money. There are people who have left churches and LOST money and position because of a change in belief.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Are you talking about the Statement of Faith?

That was worded in a way at the merger that both views - PAJC and PCI - could be comfortable with and live with. There was a tolerance present then that I wish was with you all still. That tolerance and acceptance of one another's differences is the reason the Merger took place at all.

So much to be said about all this. Some of you younger guys who came on the scene in a different generation don't understand some of the dynamics of all this I don't think. Where you're situated geographically enters into an overall understanding too of how things were and are today.

I appreciate you bro. I hear what you're saying.

I grew up in the Ozarks and now live in Central Illinois. I have never met a UPC pastor that would agree to what you all are saying. Never.

There should be no tolerance for variance on the New Birth message. How could their be? I mean, we are talking apples and oranges here.