Randy's post brings up another thing... male sexuality is a rather touchy subject in Christianity. Here's Bond making it clear that he's flirting...
As Christian men... we're almost expected to be a-sexual beings until after marriage. Everything is sin until you get married... even looking. I was told that to even fantasize about the woman you wanted to marry was a sin. I told him... "If I can't imagine or see myself sleeping with her. I'm not marrying her." And he rebuked me. I don't even think he thought about what I was really saying.
Everything about a man's desire is potential hell fire in Christianity. It's not that way in many other religions. Is the church a place where a man can be proud to be a man... and have the desires of a man? Or must he disguise he's manhood behind a religious vanier? Many men bear a near constant sense of guilt... for just being men.
It shocked me about how down right practical and frank Islam is about male desire.
Randy's post brings up another thing... male sexuality is a rather touchy subject in Christianity. Here's Bond making it clear that he's flirting...
As Christian men... we're almost expected to be a-sexual beings until after marriage. Everything is sin until you get married... even looking. I was told that to even fantasize about the woman you wanted to marry was a sin. I told him... "If I can't imagine or see myself sleeping with her. I'm not marrying her." And he rebuked me. I don't even think he thought about what I was really saying.
Everything about a man's desire is potential hell fire in Christianity. It's not entire that way in other religions. Is the church a place where a man can be proud to be a man... and have the desires of a man? Or must he disguise he's manhood behind a religious vanier?
It shocked me about how down right practical and frank Islam is about male desire.
Despite a whole book of the Bible describing that very act, and in glowing terms!
<For Chris. I edited that original post to include more of the original dialogue and an additional picture to tie it all together.>
So essentially... the Christian husband has authority in the eyes of Heaven only(?). Maybe I'm not understanding you. Because frankly, in Western society if a wife becomes a little devil... unless she cheats on him, the Christian man is truly hamstrung. He might be able to withhold sex from her... but then he gives her a right to grievance, he isn't taken seriously. And some women would simply wait him out... because women have the advantage with sex in most cases that I'm aware of... it's the man who will break down for the sake of relations.
But all of that really isn't the heart of my point/question. What is the CHURCH doing to help men find male identity and authority as it relates to the church and the Christian home? What has the church done for men lately?
Perhaps in the West... even the church is against the wall. Much like with teaching on disciplining children. The church might advocate spanking... but the wrong person hear about a parent spanking their child and it's suddenly a case for CPS. The church talks about manhood... but beyond "outings" there's really very little that calls to the primal soul of the Christian male. The primal soul that longs to roar and be heard. To hunt and to take prey. The desire to be victorious. The desire to truly "govern" the home. That primal call to lead and to be followed. The primal need to be... respected.
Many men suffer from laziness. No doubt. However, I think that when it comes to men who have (or had) been attending church for longer periods of time... the issue is a broken spirit and confusion concerning their roll in both the church and the home. A lot of men find themselves sitting in their lazy boys because they aren't able to do much else without facing "a woman's fury". A wife can quickly inform her husband that he isn't going on the men's retreat... Summer cleaning is on the same weekend. lol And in church... they are expected to attend, sit, listen, do the obligatory shout and clap... then go home and keep momma happy. As a man... you have to essentially be quiet and do what your told from the Mrs... and the pulpit. While you're essentially required to make everyone happy and do what they require of you... Who is making you happy? Men are increasingly retreating into worlds of fantasy because in fantasy land they are powerful, desired, and respected. In real life... we're essentially... sider killers and heavy lifters for the Mrs. In many homes the Mrs. even demands to manage the bills. God forbid in these homes if the husband were to day, "Honey, you've been doing a great job. But... I think God desires me to manage the bills and regulate our spending." Boy oh boy... that man is going to get it! LOL
In a way... what does it mean to be a man? What's cool about being a guy? Eh... I don't buy tampons. That's about it. lol (jk)
What can the church give us who experience or have experienced this???
I hope I'm making some sense. I'm trying to put words to a very deep feeling/emotion. Something we men often struggle with. Maybe I'm doing a terrible job.
Remeber what Paul said. if an unsaved spouse decides to leave, let them.
The simple fact is, for Christians submitted to Christ, we do not have recourse outside of the Household of Faith. There is no Western Civilization code of conduct that applies. period.
You are in the church or you are not. if you are not, then you are subject to the constructs of the society you live in and you are stuck with ever wind that blows.
But within the Church, you are constrained by your faith and protected by your faith.
That is the beauty of submission to God. It frees you from the cultural rot.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
It shocked me about how down right practical and frank Islam is about male desire.
Ever visit a black church? I've visited several, and every Pastor was very blunt about the home, marriage, sex, raising kids, etc. They don't beat around the bush.
Remeber what Paul said. if an unsaved spouse decides to leave, let them.
The simple fact is, for Christians submitted to Christ, we do not have recourse outside of the Household of Faith. There is no Western Civilization code of conduct that applies. period.
You are in the church or you are not. if you are not, then you are subject to the constructs of the society you live in and you are stuck with ever wind that blows.
But within the Church, you are constrained by your faith and protected by your faith.
That is the beauty of submission to God. It frees you from the cultural rot.
Or it leads to a society wherein increasing numbers of people (namely men) don't see the relevance of the church in their daily lives and families.
We wondered why men hate or dislike the church. It's not manly. It doesn't provide for the needs of men or address the issues men face in the sense of being... men. We're told that we have headship. But that headship is something that we merely have "faith" in and if momma doesn't have the same level of faith in it... guess what... you ain't going on that men's retreat if it's time for Spring cleaning. C'ause your faith might move mountains... but it won't move momma. lol
Ever visit a black church? I've visited several, and every Pastor was very blunt about the home, marriage, sex, raising kids, etc. They don't beat around the bush.
Yes. Amen, and I loved it. I went a "Spirit Filled" back church with my girlfriend. The pastor walked up to us and was awesome. At one point he even pulled me aside and said, "Hey now. If y'all two are 'getting busy'... y'all need to come to our Couples in Transition group." LOL
Yes. Amen, and I loved it. I went a "Spirit Filled" back church with my girlfriend. The pastor walked up to us and was awesome. At one point he even pulled me aside and said, "Hey now. If y'all two are 'getting busy'... y'all need to come to our Couples in Transition group." LOL
Yes. Amen, and I loved it. I went a "Spirit Filled" back church with my girlfriend. The pastor walked up to us and was awesome. At one point he even pulled me aside and said, "Hey now. If y'all two are 'getting busy'... y'all need to come to our Couples in Transition group." LOL
I was shocked. LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC8Kwkxk-BI
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Nope. Not quite what I mean. I told you I'm doing a terrible job at explaining what I'm trying to say. lol
In a house church... an elder reads a passage and speaks about it. Every man present can comment on the passage and even comment on the elder's words. I've seen older men turn a younger elder around on a topic with the younger elder thanking the older man for his wisdom, insight, and knowledge. It can be a powerful experience. That older man would typically have to keep his thoughts to himself and sit in that pew... clapping and getting behind the pastor... even if the pastor were wrong on a topic or needed it developed more fully. Men can contribute more to the discussion in a house church. And some house churches separate the men from the women for these sessions. Among the men it can be powerful, intellectually challenging, brutally honest, and even tender and broken. But with the ladies there... it only goes so deep and stops most of the time.
So you believe the reason more men don't go to church is that they don't get to tell the preacher he doesnt have a clue what that verse means in front of everyone else?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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