The problem with the UPCI

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Why wouldn't you be tolerant when you don't view it as salvific? It's no sweat off your back.

And, BTW, Ephesians says that He sealed us with that Holy Spirit of "promise" which is the "earnest/security" of our "inheritance/heirship". Without it, you are not an heir. So how is that not salvific?

How do you reconcile Romans 8, when it says if you "have not" the Spirit of Christ, you are none/not of His? That sounds pretty serious toward our salvation.

I see you edited after I responded. Houston pretty much answered it.

The majority of Christians, and even the majority of Pentecostals who speak in tongues, believe the Holy Spirit (at least in degree) comes when one believes in Jesus and is born again. The test of sonship is not tongues... those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by houston

initial evidence... You equate being spirit filled with tongues. No tongues, no spirit per your doctrine. One steppers believe that people are saved by/at faith. God gives the spirit to those that believe.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I see you edited after I responded. Houston pretty much answered it.

The majority of Christians, and even the majority of Pentecostals who speak in tongues, believe the Holy Spirit (at least in degree) comes when one believes in Jesus and is born again. The test of sonship is not tongues... those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Yea, I remember when I used to be a Baptist.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

Excellent discussion, like AFF of old.

That's cause it's all us old-timers!

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by houston

initial evidence... You equate being spirit filled with tongues. No tongues, no spirit per your doctrine. One steppers believe that people are saved by/at faith. God gives the spirit to those that believe.

God gives the "spirit of Christ" spoken of in Romans 8 at faith/salvation. This is the "work of regeneration by the Spirit". At this point you don't have the "Holy Ghost" because they are two distinct spirits. Then you go on to receive the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost" which comes with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

This is how it was explained to me by a AG person the other day. I used to believe subsequence but I never did believe that the "spirit of Christ" and the "Holy Ghost" were two distinct spirits.

[Aquila]

You know what I think???

Here's the problem with the UPCI... people won't leave them alone.

People have a right to live by their convictions, no matter how outlandish or unbiblical that those convictions might seem. People have a right to set standards for private associations... no matter how outlandish those standards of fellowship might seem. As a private organization they have the right to govern their body as they wish.

So... if you don't feel at home in the UPCI... maybe it isn't for you. Maybe God is calling you elsewhere. Don't become bitter, don't try to make radical waves on the illusive hopes that things might change overnight. Just find another house of worship. You have the right to live according to your beliefs and convictions too. And who knows... maybe God's best for you is waiting... waiting to be received once you let go. Be true to yourself. Live the life you desire to live deep in your heart. Besides... it will come out eventually anyway. Why waste another day that you'll never get back fuming over something YOU can change for yourself?

If the UPCI is a good fit for you, that's cool too. Stay true to what you believe deep in your heart. I can respect that. And I value many people within the UPCI... even thought I'm not a big fan of the organization.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Yea, I remember when I used to be a Baptist.

Or AOG.

Or as my mother calls them, "glorified Baptist".

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You know what I think???

Here's the problem with the UPCI... people won't leave them alone.

People have a right to live by their convictions, no matter how outlandish or unbiblical that those convictions might seem. People have a right to set standards for private associations... no matter how outlandish those standards of fellowship might seem. As a private organization they have the right to govern their body as they wish.

So... if you don't feel at home in the UPCI... maybe it isn't for you. Maybe God is calling you elsewhere. Don't become bitter, don't try to make radical waves on the illusive hopes that things might change overnight. Just find another house of worship. You have the right to live according to your beliefs and convictions too. And who knows... maybe God's best for you is waiting... waiting to be received once you let go. Be true to yourself. Live the life you desire to live deep in your heart. Besides... it will come out eventually anyway. Why waste another day that you'll never get back fuming over something YOU can change for yourself?

If the UPCI is a good fit for you, that's cool too. Stay true to what you believe deep in your heart. I can respect that. And I value many people within the UPCI... even thought I'm not a big fan of the organization.

Thank you!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

God gives the "spirit of Christ" spoken of in Romans 8 at faith/salvation. This is the "work of regeneration by the Spirit". At this point you don't have the "Holy Ghost" because they are two distinct spirits. Then you go on to receive the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost" which comes with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

This is how it was explained to me by a AG person the other day. I used to believe subsequence but I never did believe that the "spirit of Christ" and the "Holy Ghost" were two distinct spirits.

This is what my husband was taught growing up. His grandfather was a COG preacher. He later rejected the teaching seeing the fallacy in it.

We totally agree with your last statement.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by scotty

Or AOG.

Or as my mother calls them, "glorified Baptist".

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You know what I think???

Here's the problem with the UPCI... people won't leave them alone.

People have a right to live by their convictions, no matter how outlandish or unbiblical that those convictions might seem. People have a right to set standards for private associations... no matter how outlandish those standards of fellowship might seem. As a private organization they have the right to govern their body as they wish.

So... if you don't feel at home in the UPCI... maybe it isn't for you. Maybe God is calling you elsewhere. Don't become bitter, don't try to make radical waves on the illusive hopes that things might change overnight. Just find another house of worship. You have the right to live according to your beliefs and convictions too. And who knows... maybe God's best for you is waiting... waiting to be received once you let go. Be true to yourself. Live the life you desire to live deep in your heart. Besides... it will come out eventually anyway. Why waste another day that you'll never get back fuming over something YOU can change for yourself?

If the UPCI is a good fit for you, that's cool too. Stay true to what you believe deep in your heart. I can respect that. And I value many people within the UPCI... even though I'm not a big fan of the organization.