Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Well, I do know why it was brought up. Several of us feel this is a message that is a historical marker in the life of an organization. The message and the events surrounding it set the trajectory of my religious life.

Ferd, the attitude that those of us who have generations in this movement ought to walk away and never say another word about t is baffling.

Baron, I hope you know that I respect you. We have posted together for a long time. I dont recall us ever having all out war. In fact we have been on the same side almost as often as on opposite sides....


I think my history and attitude on the subject provides the context for my comments here.

You know some of us have been posting since a lot of these things happened....or at least within proximity.

I could certainly say a lot more about it. I could tell you all about a conversation I had with a family member of the fellow in question right after the event at a Because of the Times. I know exactly how tumultuous all that was for the whole family.

Nor have I suggested that he was wrong in what he said, nor have I suggested that the forcecs behind the infernal document were right.

But Bro, we are now 20 years removed. Here we are. All these years later and we are going to dig it all up and review the whole thing?

You guys walked away. I am 5th gen Apostolic. my family was PCI before there was a UPCI. I didnt walk away. you left me and seriously I have more in commone with guys like you than I do with some of the supersillycons that ive been left with.... maybe I have my own issues with you walking away? I dunno.

I do know that from my inside perspective, Im glad I stayed. I see things happening that encourrage me. Im peeved when I think of my friends who got impatient and couldnt stay around long enough to affect the kind of change that would make the org better.

i get a bit sad when I think of friends who walked away because when they figured out that some of the junk they were taught wasnt really in the bible, they ended updeciding EVERYTHING they were taught was wrong and the packed it in and turned to stuff as unbiblical as the stuff they walked away from.

And yea, there are some hanging out with you that i do not trust. I dont trust them because I know what they want is destruction. What they want is to break what they have come to hate. period. This thread isnt the first time Ive said that. It wont be the last time.

I am protective. I admit that. I have something at stake here. I have kids I want to hand this thing over to. I given 20 years of ministry. Ive suffered and I have been utterly completely blessed. I fully admit I love the UPCI and am protective of it. WARTS AND ALL.

We arent going to agree on this. I hope this post gives you more insight in why I am the way I am. And why I have said the things I have said. In my mind, there is no question why this thread was started and it wasnt for some noble purpose. im going to stand up and say so when I see this junk.

I love ya bro. Im not against you and I dont need you to think like I think for me respect you and your walk with God. Just dont expect me to stand by and watch my own be attacked. Especially when the leaders who were the leaders when all this happened are dead and gone.

peace.

[StillStanding]

LY's message is historic and soooo prophetic! Hearing this message and looking back, it's sad that so many ignored his warning and instead threw him under the bus and silenced him. Where would the UPCI be today if they had heard the trumpet of prophecy and did away with the affirmation statement? It's sad to think about.

God will always have a people, but now they are more scattered and have assimilated into other factions of Christianity. Maybe God planned it this way!

[OldPathsII]

Originally Posted by Ferd

LOL. your funny. about as accurate as a North Korean missle but funny for it.

Im the guy that your talking about. How about you just say it?

exactly how is it that I am stuck in a time warp when you are the one living in the past?

As for me not knowing what it is like to be stabbed in the back? I would draw your attention to the following. This is my life. what i LIVED.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ead.php?t=1491


yea, I know a thing or two about having your life turned upside down by preachers. ive lived it. so... you are wrong on all counts.

YOU are the one living in the past. Bitterness is a nasty taskmaster and those bent on destruction will NEVER EVER BUILD ANYTHING.

Old Path II, if you have a problem with me, call me out. say what you want. im good with that. and I stand by every word Ive written here. EVERY WORD.

You have an over-developed sense of self-importance if you think this is only about you.

[OldPathsII]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

My remark about his hair was something we joked about some time past.

My real content is this:

I have been stabbed in the back, lied to, had my children treated badly, given money that was used for something else other then what was intended, position given to someone else without telling me and my husband about it first, and other things I refuse to speak of here.

I KNOW what it is like to feel real anger - anger that makes you afraid you can't lay it down. I know what it feels like to wonder if you are capable of forgiveness. So don't tell me I don't have any real content. I don't have to splash my wounds around on the internet for others to massage me over it. I just need God to speak to me, to heal me and allow me to get up and move on.

At the end of the day, I am wise enough to know that I will stand naked before Him on that great day and will have to answer for myself - ALONE. I won't have the luxury of saying, "But, but, but..."

I have His Word and His Spirit - I am without excuse.

What is yours?

We've all been hit by ..............from people. From churches. Bleep happens. But when it's systematic? THAT'S a different playing field, and this is a SYSTEMATIC problem, not an isolated incident.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

You have an over-developed sense of self-importance if you think this is only about you.

whatever dude. you are the one living in the past.


suck it up. your just upset because we quit buying the junk you guys have been selling for however long.


get a life and move along.

[OldPathsII]

Originally Posted by Ferd

seriously? seriously you are asking that question?

You know full well why that was brought up. THis is all about keeping the bash the UPCI thing alive and well. period.

bring as much embarrisment etc as possible. why the need to revisit past wounds? what is the benifit? peeling scabs, digging up long dead skeletons does no one any good. What gives?

Moronic. You sound like Mark McGwire before the congressional committee.

Ted Bundy at trial...."Why do you all wanna keep bringing up the past?"

Boston Marathon bomber: "Hey, that was the past, why the need to bring it up?"

bin Ladin: "Why are you all so worked up, that tower thing was 12 years ago."

Isn't it interesting that we all want to ignore the part of the past that embarrasses us? Azusa Street? Heck Yeah, let's talk about that!!

You know, I don't think I'm gonna read the bible anymore. It's part of the past.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

Moronic. You sound like Mark McGwire before the congressional committee.

Ted Bundy at trial...."Why do you all wanna keep bringing up the past?"

Boston Marathon bomber: "Hey, that was the past, why the need to bring it up?"

bin Ladin: "Why are you all so worked up, that tower thing was 12 years ago."

Isn't it interesting that we all want to ignore the part of the past that embarrasses us? Azusa Street? Heck Yeah, let's talk about that!!

You know, I don't think I'm gonna read the bible anymore. It's part of the past.

And what do you want? some full accounting from the dead guys that caused the problems? get real dude.

you guys just want to cause trouble. You just want to keep the sturm und drang all worked up.


make sure everyone knows how evil the upci is. well some of us arent buying the lies/halftruths/twisted nonsense and 20 year old sad stories. Because we have been here all this time and see the truth.

YOU are PETTY and small and all you have left is to hold on to the past and hope someone will listen.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Baron, I hope you know that I respect you. We have posted together for a long time. I dont recall us ever having all out war. In fact we have been on the same side almost as often as on opposite sides....


I think my history and attitude on the subject provides the context for my comments here.

You know some of us have been posting since a lot of these things happened....or at least within proximity.

I could certainly say a lot more about it. I could tell you all about a conversation I had with a family member of the fellow in question right after the event at a Because of the Times. I know exactly how tumultuous all that was for the whole family.

Nor have I suggested that he was wrong in what he said, nor have I suggested that the forcecs behind the infernal document were right.

But Bro, we are now 20 years removed. Here we are. All these years later and we are going to dig it all up and review the whole thing?

You guys walked away. I am 5th gen Apostolic. my family was PCI before there was a UPCI. I didnt walk away. you left me and seriously I have more in commone with guys like you than I do with some of the supersillycons that ive been left with.... maybe I have my own issues with you walking away? I dunno.

I do know that from my inside perspective, Im glad I stayed. I see things happening that encourrage me. Im peeved when I think of my friends who got impatient and couldnt stay around long enough to affect the kind of change that would make the org better.

i get a bit sad when I think of friends who walked away because when they figured out that some of the junk they were taught wasnt really in the bible, they ended updeciding EVERYTHING they were taught was wrong and the packed it in and turned to stuff as unbiblical as the stuff they walked away from.

And yea, there are some hanging out with you that i do not trust. I dont trust them because I know what they want is destruction. What they want is to break what they have come to hate. period. This thread isnt the first time Ive said that. It wont be the last time.

I am protective. I admit that. I have something at stake here. I have kids I want to hand this thing over to. I given 20 years of ministry. Ive suffered and I have been utterly completely blessed. I fully admit I love the UPCI and am protective of it. WARTS AND ALL.

We arent going to agree on this. I hope this post gives you more insight in why I am the way I am. And why I have said the things I have said. In my mind, there is no question why this thread was started and it wasnt for some noble purpose. im going to stand up and say so when I see this junk.

I love ya bro. Im not against you and I dont need you to think like I think for me respect you and your walk with God. Just dont expect me to stand by and watch my own be attacked. Especially when the leaders who were the leaders when all this happened are dead and gone.

peace.

Ferd,

I just fundamentally disagree that we should bury the past. We should forgive an move on as individuals but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold the organizations feet to the fire. They say you can't affect it from the outside, I beg to differ.

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

I'll stand by my earlier statement that Loren Yadon's life and ministry was destroyed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the immediate devastation that took place, the loss of everything that was close or dear. Did he rebuild, put things back together? Of course he did, he's a real man of God.

But to be dismissive of "His life and ministry was destroyed" is to be ignorant of that facts.

To read some of the posts about "get over it".......you guys have no clue. None. Zilch. You're stuck in a time warp, a parallel universe, that has no idea what the real world is like. You have no idea what it's like to be hugged and praised and unknowingly be knifed in the back at the same time, to have everything that's ever meant ANYTHING to you, stolen from you in one day and be left standing with NOTHING.

And then you get on here and rip guys like Dan Alicea because he's "Bitter". The truth is, he's trumpeting the truth and you don't like the key he's playing in. PO resorts to making fun of Baron's profile picture because PO has no real content to respond with.

You want to pretend that religious systems and denominations.....and the UPC is just one of them.....haven't destroyed people, haven't driven them to take their own lives, haven't run people through character shredders just to further their own systematic agendas, you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend.

Keep pretending. Your system is falling apart and will continue to until there's almost nothing left. At some point you'll need a new bandwagon on which to jump.

Nice post.

It is very arrogant and unfeeling to dismiss the abuse that others have experienced as inconsequential and unimportant.

It is also ironic that Ferd and others want everyone to move on yet they continue to bring up their own hurts regarding Dan Alicea from several years ago.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

We've all been hit by ..............from people. From churches. Bleep happens. But when it's systematic? THAT'S a different playing field, and this is a SYSTEMATIC problem, not an isolated incident.

This thread reminds me of The Count of Monte Cristo - Edmond Dantes is back, going to get revenge and going to get my girl back too.