hi, I am a licensed minister within the UPC And I have been Apostolic all my life. (3rd generation)
Last night my pastor preached about holiness without giving real scripture. This is quite confusing because I am not versed in the matters of holiness and I do not know how to give answers concerning holiness without hemming and hawwing.
Anyway, my pastor goes on to say that if you believe the lie that charismatics believe you will end up in hell. Well, I was wondering , what if believing in the ideas of holiness as the UPCI puts it is a lie? Would that not send one to hell as well?
thoughts?
I have thought for some time about how much trouble these "Standards enforcement preachers are gonna be in at the judgement.
The same judgments they preach upon women who refuse to obey their twisted ideas, women who dare to study the word and question the fallacious doctrines imposed upon them by men who say they have the word from God.
I don't think they are gonna get a free pass from God by saying i wanted to error on the safe side.
I think god is going to hold them accountable for false doctrine just as much as they say God will hold the Mormon preacher and the Jehovahs Witness preacher accountable.
I would not stand in the shoes of a "Standards imposer" preacher on judgment day for all the money in China.
All the damnation they have held over the heads of people who trust them to tell the them the truth. God will bring that damnation upon them.
God will hold them accountable for their lies.
Clear enough.
__________________
God has lavished his love upon me.
I was trained in standards for over 40 years, no tv, no jewelry, no shorts, dresses on women, no cutting hair if you are a woman, cut your hair if you are a man, no beards on men, etc etc. Problem is I do not have any real scripture to back any of these.
Good Grief
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
I have thought for some time about how much trouble these "Standards enforcement preachers are gonna be in at the judgement.
The same judgments they preach upon women who refuse to obey their twisted ideas, women who dare to study the word and question the fallacious doctrines imposed upon them by men who say they have the word from God.
I don't think they are gonna get a free pass from God by saying i wanted to error on the safe side.
I think god is going to hold them accountable for false doctrine just as much as they say God will hold the Mormon preacher and the Jehovahs Witness preacher accountable.
I would not stand in the shoes of a "Standards imposer" preacher on judgment day for all the money in China.
All the damnation they have held over the heads of people who trust them to tell the them the truth. God will bring that damnation upon them.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
You know, I really in my heart wished it were that simple. My wife is a staunch conservative (we argue a lot about standards) and I have too many family members...........well, lets just say it isn't as easy as running as I would like for it to be.
This right here answers the giant question mark over my own head.
Clearly your veracity is part of the issue here.
You do have a pretty well defined theology here. Your problem seems to be a divided home, and a desire to use AFF as a sounding board to reinforce your already preconcieved notions that run counter to the culture you find yourself trapped in.
I suggest you regroup, get honest with yourself and find a group of men who can help you find your way.
I would also suggest you not use AFF as the light for your path. I dont know where you will end up. and I am not suggesting your view of holiness issues is either right or wrong. Nor am I suggesting you get a group of men who can get you lined out and make you a super-con. nor am I suggesting you find a bunch of chrismatics who will slap you on the back.
but bro, you got issues. Your home is divided. Your heart is torn, and some will look at the posts here as a lack of wisdom coming to a group of people who include agnositics, bitter former apostolics, fellow wonders, conservatives and even ultra conservatives who are by and large people you do not know and will never know.
You have some work to do on you my brother. Im praying for you!
Yul Bolson!
May there always be a road.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
YOU are the one holding license with the UPCI. Not having settled these issues in your own heart, by understanding your OWN THEOLOGY and by not committing you to grasping the doctrines of YOUR church, are in fact, YOUR ISSUES.
I don’t know what bothers me more. Your not having these things settled in your own heart, or your asking Apostolics Friends Forum for your direction.
Either of these alone would be disturbing. The two together is so shocking as to make me actually wonder at your veracity.
well, I was (or at least thought I was) clear on these standards 10 years ago. As far as me bringing them up on this forum, it was this forum that made me think about what I believe.
Frankly, im still trying to understand the issue most men take with the holiness standards. Many of the UPC standards apply to women, not men. Not wearing shorts, avoiding the theater and beach is not some huge sacrifice on their part. Yet the men seem to throw the biggest temper tantrums. The apostolic church is majority women.
__________________
Last edited by Evenuntodeath; 03-01-2013 at 01:34 PM.
Elder Epley was using it all the way back during FCF days.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Elder Epley was using it all the way back during FCF days.
Well, Cindy has it now, and possession is nine tenths of the law!
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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