Dropped By & Somewhat Dismayed But Not Surprised

[Ron]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I've seen three pentecostal church splits in my community. It wasn't the saint's doings either. All three splits were the minister's own wrongdoings and power struggles with each other.

Problem is, not all District Boards and fellow ministers provide accountability honestly and with integrity. Some of them do sweep problems under the rug and hide them for their own personal gain.

It happens and there are some on this forum who know it happens because they experienced it.

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Correct.

The rules and process only works if everyone plays by the same rules and processes.

Sooo, we bypass Biblical principles if everyone isn't playing by the rules?
I kind of get the feeling through your posts that because you don't see the system working the way you want it too, in the time frame you want it too, that you are then justfied in taking matters into your own hands?
Is that what you are saying, because that is how it is coming across.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by StillStanding

Ron, you can't unring this bell! Maybe instead of lamenting over how the story has gotten out, you should move on with your self-righteous self!

Is it self righteous to stand for what is right, or is that a decoy tactic to get me onto your side---it dosn't work.

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by Ron

No offense Michael, I sometimes think I am in another Church than the one most go to on AFF. I was born in the Spirit, try to live in the Spirit, & have the Spirit guide my life. I have been around the use of Spiritual Gifts for coming on 30 years now. I have seen Agels, had visions, dreams from God.
I have been there to cast out demons & have heard the voice of God a few times so audibly loud that I have turned my head because I thought he God was physically in the room with me.
I have been in services where someone (in the judgement of God) was turned over to a reprobate mind. That person is looney tunes today sadly.
I have had God prophetically say, "there are two spirits at work here & if you do not repent you will die."
There was a witness in my spirit that this was God talking & not some scare tactic.

Michael, I know the voice of God, & when I prayed 3 years ago about the lack of respect for Apostolic Ministers on this board especially & in other places, he was not impressed either & said that he would deal with it.
Now if that means that anyone on here doesn't wake up tomorrow, or ever gain--that is his business.

Nothing may happen until that last breath which may be 100 years old, but I am not presumptious as those whom Jude talks about in the New Testament.
Call me a crackpot, a wingnut, I could care less, but I think before you outright dismiss me, that you may want to consider the scriptures & pray before you chew & spit out Ministers with complete contempt.

There is a Bible process we should abide by---that is if we beleive in the divine authority of the Word of God.

BTW, the Bible has clear examples of dealing with troublemakers & it ain't pretty--look them up.

You say he is an Apostolic minister and there are consequences for speaking about this situation. Jesus said:

Matthew 7:15-16 (NIV)
15..“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16..By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

What was the fruit? Immorality, embezzlement, lies, distortions, attacking those who confronted him.

Is that the fruit of an Apostolic minister?

Jesus also said:

John 10:11-13 (NIV)
11..“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12..The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13..The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

We are to know them that labor among us.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by H Gang

You say he is an Apostolic minister and there are consequences for speaking about this situation. Jesus said:

Matthew 7:15-16 (NIV)
15..“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16..By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

What was the fruit? Immorality, embezzlement, lies, distortions, attacking those who confronted him.

Is that the fruit of an Apostolic minister?

Jesus also said:

John 10:11-13 (NIV)
11..“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12..The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13..The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

We are to know them that labor among us.

H. Gang,
Woa, woa now, I sm not defending anything he may or may not have done.
I am saying what these threads are doing here is not the process that in place both Biblically & on an Organizational level to deal with the matter &
is therefore wrong.
It also isn't going to help the matter any & is going to cause a lot of collateral damage.
People will come here to "vent" out of anger, biterness, saying things that may or may not be true.
On any level you look at it, this isn't the way to go.

[Cindy]

And yet, here we are with another thread about a situation. Agreeing and disagreeing. I am sure most know where they stand, but it just keeps going and going. Because, someone has to have the last word.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Ron

Sooo, we bypass Biblical principles if everyone isn't playing by the rules?
I kind of get the feeling through your posts that because you don't see the system working the way you want it too, in the time frame you want it too, that you are then justfied in taking matters into your own hands?
Is that what you are saying, because that is how it is coming across.

Ron, it's a done deal.

He's gone.

No one is taking matters into their own hands - we are discussing what took place.

[not4saken]

Originally Posted by Ron

Wioa, woa, for one thing she didn't just talk about him--she railed on him, & this wasn't ba one time deal, but it went on for a while.
She was also part of a group that was trying to split the Church.

Ron? How do you KNOW this person was trying to split a church?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Ron, it's a done deal.

He's gone.

No one is taking matters into their own hands - we are discussing what took place.

Yup, pass another piece, munch, munch, burp, do you want the hand, or the eyeball!
Please Renda, I know the Bible & understand what you are doing.
I, like to thread title says, am dismayed (at AFF) but not surprised!

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Ron

Yup, pass another piece, munch, munch, burp, do you want the hand, or the eyeball!
Please Renda, I know the Bible & understand what you are doing.
I, like to thread title says, am dismayed (at AFF) but not surprised!

Well, don't go to Facebook or the other minister's forum. You might over indulge.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by not4saken

Ron? How do you KNOW this person was trying to split a church?

Ummm, it could beee that her and another group were not happy with a vote & made accusations against the Pastor (who never fought back by the way) & then proceeded to persuade members to leave.
That would be a pretty good reason.
It is one thing to leave a Church with a good or bad spirit, it is totally another thing when one tries to persuade others behind the scenes to follow you.

Proverbs 6:
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

I included the 1st verse because I am sure that "nobody" on this forum has "all the facts" as it pertains to this situation.