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Originally Posted by tv1a
I never said all people who live in trailers are trash. So you can stop being offended.
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You made no distinctions.
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Originally Posted by tv1a
Not everyone's opinion holds the same weight. The Bible says we are to test the spirits and we are to judge by the fruit.
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Never said everyone opinion holds the same weight. I hold that every saint in the church has a valid ministry. A ministry is not an opinion. There is a difference despite what you say.
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Originally Posted by tv1a
The webcam prophets usually have the same characteristics. Those who slam faith healers or people who are used in signs, wonders, and miracles couldn't pray for God to stop a runny nose.
Webcam prophets who complain about wealthy christians are jealous. Instead of working harder and making smarter decisions, they just tear others down who made the right decisions.
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I've seen preachers slam other preachers in the UPC in whose ministry God used signs and wonders. And why do you call people webcam prophets? And why do you use derogatory terms to describe human beings?
Your speech describing people weakens the validity of your position. It tears people down instead of building them up. If this is your type of ministry that "edifies" the saints...then no thanks. I know God is not speaking through you.
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Originally Posted by tv1a
While you bring up the topic, making a career out of being on welfare is wrong. Paul told the church not to give to lazy people. The church is required to take care of the widows and orphans, period. There are people with legitimate disabilities who need compassion. Even then if a person has the right minset, they can obercome any obstacle. Does Joni Tada Erickson and Stephen Hawking ring a bell?
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First of all, I did not bring up the topic...YOU did. And you did so with scorn for the poor. Your post gave me the impression that anybody who is poor is on welfare. You made no distinction in that regard. And your posts give me the impression that if they are poor and on welfare, they are lazy and should not have an opinion sitting on a pew. That mindset only demasculates the men who would work if they can find a decent job. Or oppresses the women whose men left them with children.
Secondly, I've never seen one UPC church in my region take care of anybody in this area. I've heard them direct people to the state to sign up for welfare. I've heard with my own ears teaching from the pulpit that if a widow so much as has a nephew, let not the church be charged. In other words, the teaching was that they would look the other way if a widow woman has any family at all, that even her nephew should help her and she should not look to the church. It doesn't matter if that nephew has his own family to feed and educate. Yes, that did come out of the ministry's mouth.
Thirdly, my observation of the church system in my area is that they take from the poor more than they give to them. One well known evangelist in these parts stood up in the pulpit while preaching, saying "If you do not have money to pay your rent, pay your tithes anyway". I've known people who borrowed money and gave it to the church when they could not afford to do so and had to pay it back with high interest. An ignorant move.
Don't give me your interpretation of what he meant either. You weren't there to hear the entire sermon.
What makes some church leaders any different from a welfare recipient when they beg or tell horror stories in their sermons of what happens to people when they don't tithe?
I live in the poorest state of the union. Some of the preachers here live much higher than the average in their congregations. One preacher refused to live in the brick constructed church parsonage that was bought and paid for by the church for the prior pastor. Instead, the church sold it to one of his family members.
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Originally Posted by tv1a
You pulled scripture out of context. The context in John 16 was a directive to the disciples that the Holy Spirit would fill in the gaps. The narrative around John 16:13 starts in John 16:8 when Jesus says I have a lot more to teach you. You are not ready for it right now. I won't be around to finish, but the Holy Spirit will finish what I started. Notice a pattern? Jesus taught, Holy Spirit filled in the gaps when the disciples were ready. Bible scholars believe this was a directive to the disciples which was fulfilled after the Day of Pentecost. We see evidence by the fact of what we have in the New Testament.
Same in 1 John 2:27. When read in proper context, John already taught the church the truth. Verse 24 shows John already taught them the truth. The truth John speaks about relates to the Diety of Christ. John was fighting the antichrist spirit. John was telling the church the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth about gnosticism. John told the church the Holy Spirit will confirm what was taught by the ministry.
Taking the scriptures cited into proper context, does not suggest the Holy Spirit replaces the five fold ministry, but reinforces what's been taught by the Holy Spirit as to be truth or error. |
Your interpretation is one of many that I have heard over the years. Even the many preachers cannot agree with context of these scriptures. One teaches it one way, one teaches it another way. Who is correct? Why should anybody think your interpretation is correct over another preacher's interpretation? Or are you going to slug it out with the preacher who contradicts your interpretation?
I believe that God teaches all of his people through the Holy Ghost. If you read any recent modern day history, you will find that God spoke to people in countries where they oppress people who believe in Jesus Christ.
You just want to justify your elevation of one man to be higher than another. Some of the ones on top want to make sure many stay at the base so they can have their job and an audience.
I have not seen any oneness church in my region that actually operates in a five-fold ministry mode. None.
If your idea of men running the church in your interpretation of the bible is so effective, why then is America sliding down into the pits of Godless communism? Why does the church just roll over when laws are passed to further oppress the church? The country should be in revival and the churches bursting at the seams. Why isn't it?
Why are there over 38,000 different denominations and beliefs in the christian church today...with each claiming to have the one true gospel and each with their own set of rules and ordinances? That is an astounding number that Satan has been able to divide the body of Christ over.
The reason why the saints sit in the pew and let the preacher and a few do it all is because they are taught to. Plain and simple. Some of the "hierarchy" shoots themselves in the foot and cripples the whole assembly by their rules and ordinances.
Some of them do not edify the saints at all. They teach that there is a hierarchy, they get to appoint that hierarchy and the rest of the people are to do as they are told by that hierarchy regardless of what a saint feels God told him to do.
The body of Christ is supposed to work together...fit nicely into a living organism with Christ as the Head of His church.
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