Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

[KeptByTheWord]

... and they all lived happily ever after....

[houston]

Who has TB?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by commonsense

The End

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

... and they all lived happily ever after....

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by tv1a

When a person tells me they are a Democrat I know they belong to a party which supports abortions, entitlement, and wealth distribution. Even if that person doesn't believe in abortion, the label the represent says something different. People who identify with a works based religion need to realize the decades of threats, intimidations, and manipulation can't be wiped away because "not everyone is like that."

It will take years or a radical change to alter the preception of works based organizations.

Also the party of gay marriage

[Enigmatically Ambiguous]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

My point is that it isn't a question about any one group, whether they do more or less, if ultraconservatives were doing it more than any other Pentecostal group, then the secular media with be prancing around holding aloft their severed heads. Just as they do with Muslims, and Roman Catholics.

I believe we are going to be circling the wagons maybe sometime soon (not speaking eschatologically) but this country is becoming extremely liberal, and the flood gates will open to an extent that no matter if you are a Cruzeematic, or an Ultra-ultraconservative we all we have the wolves looking at us like we are the same raw pork chop.

This issue goes beyond the acts of immorality. The issue is with individuals who aggressively project themsleves as defenders of the faith, defenders of the movement, defenders of holiness, crusaders of Apostolic Identity (I've been told that the term "Apostolic Identity" was coined in Memphis), who have politicked, and crucified people, publicly humiliated people, behind the scenes defamed people's character, manipulated to get their way at District functions, at General Conferences, at Youth Congresses. How someone would have the gall to be mean-spirited, unmerciful, controlling and intimidating all the while garnishing the admiration of his local church as a hero, earning the respect of the org to the degree to be an international speaker, camp meeting preacher, conferences, men's retreats, singles conferences and other large gatherings---being appointed to powerful commissions and committees, and having access to high elected officials who would listen to and even implement his ideas---to be so with haughtiness and arrogance, and in private doing the things that were done is one of the most amazing examples of hypocrisy I've witnessed in my 60+ years. And not one Spirit-filled leader or friend in ministry discern for a second something seriously wrong with the fruit is perplexing.

I recognized hypocrisy and tried to warn people of it, but only to the degree that his expectation that people live according to the manual wasn't reflected in his own personal life (i.e. attending pro ball games, watching television, allowances for looser living on vacations and other innocuous violations). It was hypocrisy, yes, but I had no clue to how deep it ran.

It's not simply a symptom of conservative vs. liberal ideology. The problem is sin in the flesh. And when you have any individual with lots and lots of power and influence, with very little accountability, and an unwillingness to ever be challenged with questions, or audits or someone who might disagree or see things differently---it's a set up for a fall. And when the fruit of the ministry below the surface of shouting services and large crowds and big offerings and popularity is a track record of bullying, intimidation, back door politics and ruthlessness...someone with even a little bit of Holy Spirit should be able to look at that and say, "There is something wrong with this picture."

Do I believe he made some people in positions of power uncomfortable? Not only do I believe it, I know it. I had one on one conversations with elected officials who didn't like his style off the record, but no one would say anything to him. Why? Big offerings to the org, powerful friends and relationships, the good ole boys network...keeps a lot of people quiet. It just makes one wonder if it is symptomatic of political systems which the UPCI has as an underlying foundation. Maybe the NT model of men approved of God, spiritual consensus and appointment rather than elections, church size, offering amounts and democratic structure would serve the movement better. I don't know thatbi see much difference between Washington DC and Hazelwood sometimes.

[Enigmatically Ambiguous]

Originally Posted by Adam

Fine. But, why did you make an unreasonable request to Charnock to return all collected tithes? I may be mistaken, and Charnock can correct me, but, I think he was ordained in the UPCI. And, I do believe that org requires part of the tithe to be sent to the org, but, please enlighten us all, if this is not the case. And, if this is the case, then it would be impossible to return all tithes, as the org holds and/or spent part of those tithes.

Or should we retroactively repay all tithes to the Assemblies of God for all of the churches and ministries that left their organization back in 1916 or whenever it was. The whole district of Louisiana was lost by them. Or maybe we all need to repay the Roman Catholic Church as Protestants since all of the German Catholic churches left with Martin Luther or the English Churches left with Henry VIII. It's a preposterous idea. Of course I understand the underlying message. But if we believe that the way of the righteous is as the shining light that shines more and more unto the perfect day, we can expect evolution, progression and schisms as the Body of Christ moves forward to the second coming of Jesus.

[Enigmatically Ambiguous]

Originally Posted by strait shooter

A member of the UPCI pays dues. Headquarters and District dues. In my district it is $50 a month and the HQ dues are approx $400 a year. If I dont like to pay dues than I can drop my license. I do not pay tithes to the district I pay dues. The UPC does not require that the tithe or a part be paid to them.

Not true. Ministry tithes are to be paid to the district in most cases.

[Enigmatically Ambiguous]

Originally Posted by strait shooter

No the Pastors of the UPC do not pay tithe up the organizational ladder. Typically a Pastor will pay his tithe to his pastor, or to a deserving ministry. In my case I pay part to the retired pastor of this church and part to evangelists that we have. Trust me....every pastor I know in the UPC pays tithe and then some....usually a lot more.

I've been a member of four districts and I've never heard of discretionary tithing. Every district I've belonged to requires all or part of the tithe of the ministers to go to the district. I know Texas and Lousiana require it, other districts require a portion, like Indiana and Illinois.

These are some of the larger districts too. I'd venture to say most districts require 100% of the ministers to tithe to the district or at least part of it.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Enigmatically Ambiguous

Not true. Ministry tithes are to be paid to the district in most cases.

Sounds like a matter of wording.....the District and the Organization charge "dues".....not "tithes".....the dues are on top of your tithes, but in some cases, the district allows/encourages the dues to be taken out of the tithes.

[Cindy]

Good grief. So do pastors pay dues and tithes?