Arnold Murray

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

And ps, I'm ignorant of this "Reformed Branch," could you expound there a little? Ty again. Are they just called "Reformed Christians?"

Generally speaking, these are churches that follow Calvin and the teachings of the Protestant Reformation- (Presbyterians, Reformed, etc)- and subscribe to the confessions coming out of the Reformation- (The Westminster Confession of Faith and the three Forms of Unity- Belgic Confession, the Canons of Dort, and the Heidelberg Catechism.)

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Generally speaking, these are churches that follow Calvin and the teachings of the Protestant Reformation- (Presbyterians, Reformed, etc)- and subscribe to the confessions coming out of the Reformation- (The Westminster Confession of Faith and the three Forms of Unity- Belgic Confession, the Canons of Dort, and the Heidelberg Catechism.)

Hmm, interesting, ty. I'm completely unfamiliar with these! Can you give us a synopsis, maybe what doctrine has come into the mainstream via this? I'll look deeper, but something to whet an appetite, if you would be so kind, to get (me) off on the right foot, an edifying start here? Ty again.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I don't agree with all of Arnold Murray's theology, but I find most of it to be pretty sound. I had questions about Rapture doctrine, saw one too many thin arguments based on stretched definitions, and got Ezekiel 13:18-20 translated by him concisely, and it was not a puzzle. "I (God) am against those who teach men to fly to save their souls" is what you will end up with; or remain in denial.

Murray does not deny hell at all, but does argue that it hasn't even been created yet, and won't be until after the Great White Throne judgement. His serpent seed doctrine strikes me as sound, and he does not overplay it. Adam is not in Cain's geneology, the Bible clearly states "enmity between thy seed and my seed," which is offspring to God, that "seed" part, dress it up however you want, and Adam and Eve notably covered their privates after "eating the fruit," and not their mouths.

I hear people that disagree with him, but their theology just doesn't hold up as well as his. As you note, I am more scared of the "are you kidding?"s, frankly, as while I don't agree with every word Murray says myself--he was a marine, and has nationalistic ideas I don't agree with, and also believes that 1948 is connected to the parable of the fig tree--So what; I don't believe you're supposed to agree with everything anybody says, and I think one runs the risk of tossing a really big baby with a little bathwater since, as you note, you better pack a lunch if you think you are going to cogently argue against him, and "are you serious?" becomes a cop-out, sorry Dord.

How many preachers you know who can correct the KJV with authority as they go? Your preacher inform you yet how "Easter" got in the KJV that one time, in place of Passover? (Christ is our "Passover," and Ishtar [Easter] is just some pagan fertility goddess [eggs, bunnies, etc]). How many know the meanings of every, single name in the Bible, which brings clarity to so many obscure passages?

You can run, but you can't really hide from Murray. What I mostly love about him is the overlay of Grace, he doesn't present any of his what many might call "fringe" doctrine as like "mandatory" or anything, he just lays it out there, keeps Grace first...

It should be noted that he accepts no pay for this work of his, and his ministry is growing hugely, they have their own network now. Thumbs up here, for Murray.

"He's way off track" just has no basis in reality, or by all means bring it and let's find out.

bump

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by seekerman

What a great bible teacher! He teaches book by book, verse by verse, something that 99.99% of the preachers today just don't do.

What is the problem with the preachers today not doing this? Don't know the bible well enough? Don't take the time to study? Why?

I must be of the .01 percent. Have been teaching verse by verse for 37 years when there is opportunity. There is also a place for topical preaching or teaching. Dont care much for the scattered type preaching that usually starts with, "Tonight Im taking for my text...........".

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I must be of the .01 percent. Have been teaching verse by verse for 37 years when there is opportunity. There is also a place for topical preaching or teaching. Dont care much for the scattered type preaching that usually starts with, "Tonight Im taking for my text...........".

Way cool. The beauty of this kind of teaching, imo, is that even if you differ with the teacher, at least you can say why at the end.

[bbyrd009]

Imo, you generally discover some truth in either of "opposing" views, and it is just context or premise that inevitably has changed.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I don't agree with all of Arnold Murray's theology, but I find most of it to be pretty sound. I had questions about Rapture doctrine, saw one too many thin arguments based on stretched definitions, and got Ezekiel 13:18-20 translated by him concisely, and it was not a puzzle. "I (God) am against those who teach men to fly to save their souls" is what you will end up with; or remain in denial.

Murray does not deny hell at all, but does argue that it hasn't even been created yet, and won't be until after the Great White Throne judgement. His serpent seed doctrine strikes me as sound, and he does not overplay it. Adam is not in Cain's geneology, the Bible clearly states "enmity between thy seed and my seed," which is offspring to God, that "seed" part, dress it up however you want, and Adam and Eve notably covered their privates after "eating the fruit," and not their mouths.

I hear people that disagree with him, but their theology just doesn't hold up as well as his. As you note, I am more scared of the "are you kidding?"s, frankly, as while I don't agree with every word Murray says myself--he was a marine, and has nationalistic ideas I don't agree with, and also believes that 1948 is connected to the parable of the fig tree--So what; I don't believe you're supposed to agree with everything anybody says, and I think one runs the risk of tossing a really big baby with a little bathwater since, as you note, you better pack a lunch if you think you are going to cogently argue against him, and "are you serious?" becomes a cop-out, sorry Dord.

How many preachers you know who can correct the KJV with authority as they go? Your preacher inform you yet how "Easter" got in the KJV that one time, in place of Passover? (Christ is our "Passover," and Ishtar [Easter] is just some pagan fertility goddess [eggs, bunnies, etc]). How many know the meanings of every, single name in the Bible, which brings clarity to so many obscure passages?

You can run, but you can't really hide from Murray. What I mostly love about him is the overlay of Grace, he doesn't present any of his what many might call "fringe" doctrine as like "mandatory" or anything, he just lays it out there, keeps Grace first...

It should be noted that he accepts no pay for this work of his, and his ministry is growing hugely, they have their own network now. Thumbs up here, for Murray.

"He's way off track" just has no basis in reality, or by all means bring it and let's find out.

Where are all the swords?
The last thing I want to do is alienate someone from posting--an alt pov is the only way we might discover truth here--but this naturally assumes you are posting something.
See that when you post an opinion sans reference, and then run, the other side gains credibility; but I am not interested in this.
You had no basis to make the accusations that you parrot here--and this is now becoming obvious--and you keep truth from yourself, bad enough, but also others who seek truth when you do this.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by seekerman

What a great bible teacher! He teaches book by book, verse by verse, something that 99.99% of the preachers today just don't do.

What is the problem with the preachers today not doing this? Don't know the bible well enough? Don't take the time to study? Why?

Seekerperson,

My pastor does through the Bible book by book verse by verse. We were on the book of Genesis most of 2011. This year we started with John. Typically one chapter per Sunday but sometimes longer chapters take two Sundays or more.

I have mixed feelings about it. I like the idea in some ways but a part of me thinks the teaching should be more flexible as to what a church needs at a particular time. We do have several services a year that are different. One where the pastor gives the vision of the church, etc.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by CC1

Seekerperson,

My pastor does through the Bible book by book verse by verse. We were on the book of Genesis most of 2011. This year we started with John. Typically one chapter per Sunday but sometimes longer chapters take two Sundays or more.

I have mixed feelings about it. I like the idea in some ways but a part of me thinks the teaching should be more flexible as to what a church needs at a particular time. We do have several services a year that are different. One where the pastor gives the vision of the church, etc.

It's great to hear that your pastor teaches verse by verse, that's rare.

[Dordrecht]

I am accused of posting and run?
Hey, listen, I watched this guy several times.
He's of track, just as I said before.
Why would I want to come back in here and waste hours and hours posting when you have made up your mind that this guy is so great?

Use Google: Arnold Murray - False teacher, and find out what he's all about.

I have a family that needs my time.
I'm not interested in going into a long useless discussion about a false teacher.
Next time you watch him, check his opinions with what your bible teaches.