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  #131  
Old 01-30-2012, 12:53 PM
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Re: witchcraft

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Originally Posted by The Matt View Post
If you ever want to talk, free of any kind of debate, send me a private message. I may not be the smartest man on the planet, but I've got a shoulder. Well...an empty text space anyway.
Thanks.
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  #132  
Old 01-30-2012, 12:57 PM
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Re: witchcraft

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Not that you shouldn't disagree with me (on general principles, if nothing else! ), but, what are you talking about?

I am talking about the basic premise of this thread. You quoted Flute and said that the definition of witchcraft rendered was ineffective for Christianity and then went back to drugs, druggies, and drug dealers (namely pills, pill poppers, and pill pushers). I was just taking a moment of my time to let you know that I am aware of your existence and disagreed with you concerning this topic.

By the way, my condolences on the premature departure of your relative.
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  #133  
Old 01-30-2012, 01:00 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: witchcraft

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
No testimony can prove that all sickness can be healed. But it only takes one exception to disprove it. As you know, there are many exceptions. Pointing out that you said "with the right amount of faith, prayer, fasting, and reading God's word" is pointless. Not to mention, a pretty cruel and heartless thing to say to someone who lost a loved one despite a lot of faith, prayer, fasting, and reading God's word. What, they didn't quiiiiite make the cut? 100 prayers was, maybe, 10 short of the number God needed before He'd heal? Or did someone quit a fast just a day too soon?
Timmy... you're touching on a pretty serious problem in Pentecost. All I can say is that miracles only happen as God desires them. Why He desires them in some circumstances and not others, I don't know. And I can confess... I've had my own screaming matches with God because of this.

This kind of reminds me of the story of John the Baptist. John the Baptist was the forerunner of Christ. John identified Jesus as being, “the lamb of God”, on the day Jesus came to be baptized of John in the Jordan. Many of John’s disciples left to follow and assist Jesus. John saw all kinds of miracles and healings. No doubt John was very excited to see what God had in store. However, things took a turn for the worse after John rebuked Herod for adultery. John ends up in prison, knowing Herod was wanting to kill him. Let’s take a closer look:
Matthew 11:2-4 (ESV)
2 Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3 and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. 6 And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
For me, this is one of the saddest passages of the Gospel of Matthew. Here’s John, a faithful prophet and follower of Jesus. He’s in prison for preaching righteousness. He hears of all the things Jesus is doing and has already identified Jesus as the deliverer. Yet John is sitting in prison with a death sentence looming over his head. No doubt John was a bit confused. Jesus hadn’t even come to visit him in prison. Jesus showed no inclinations of attempting to argue for or negotiate his freedom. Basically, Jesus was on the road preaching like He didn’t care on bit that John was in prison facing a death sentence. No doubt John felt confused and forgotten. So John sent a disciple to deliver a massage to Jesus asking,
“Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?”
This question breaks my heart. John’s basically saying,
“Jesus, are you really the deliverer? I’m in prison and about to die and it doesn’t seem like you care at all. Have you forgotten about me? Or… are you just not who you seemed to be; and thus we should look for another?”
What follows is a bit cold. But it teaches a very important lesson, in my opinion. Jesus doesn’t even return with the disciple to the prison to speak to John in person. Instead, Jesus sends the disciple back telling him to tell John the Baptist the following,
“Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. 6 And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
John already knew that the blind, lepers, and deaf were being healed. No doubt John already knew that the dead were being raised. And of course John knew that the Gospel was being preached. It’s the last statement Jesus that makes that brings tears to my eyes. Jesus says,
“And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
In other words Jesus was saying,
”John, I’m not coming. I’m not going to deliver you from this. You’re going to have to accept what I’ve purposed for your life. John, I’m going to let you die. And John, know this… the man who can accept my decisions regarding his life and not be offended by me… blessed and happy will he be… though I choose to allow him to die.”
I pray John accepted that message. I can see John crying and staring at the stars through his prison cell bracing himself for the fate Jesus decreed for him. I pray John found the resolve to lift his hands and say, “The LORD gives… and the Lord takes away. Though he slays me…yet will I trust Him. Blessed be the name of the LORD!”

All we read of John the Baptist before hearing of his beheading are the words Jesus spoke after sending the messenger back to John,
Matthew 11:11-15
11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
I don’t think the people understood that Christ’s words were a eulogy. Next all we hear about is John being beheaded. The end of John the Baptist.

I know many people that I have loved who have been in a circumstance praying for deliverance or healing. And yet, Jesus doesn’t do anything. Jesus allows them to go through the trial, and even death, for reasons unknown. But I do remember the words Jesus spoke:
“And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
It’s a great challenge not be hurt or offended that Jesus didn’t heal and deliver my mother…especially when I hear about some new converts unsaved drunken uncle being healed. But I know she was ready. And so I force myself to lift my hands and say, “The LORD gives… and the Lord takes away. Though he slays me…yet will I trust Him. Blessed be the name of the LORD!”

In closing, God also understands if we loose it for a while and let Him have it out of pain and hurt. He's willing to hold us as we scream at him, hit him, and throw things until we collapse in His arms. He understands. However, there is a blessing of peace when we let go and just let God be God...even though it hurts.

Amen.

Last edited by Aquila; 01-30-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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  #134  
Old 01-30-2012, 01:01 PM
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Re: witchcraft

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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I am talking about the basic premise of this thread. You quoted Flute and said that the definition of witchcraft rendered was ineffective for Christianity and then went back to drugs, druggies, and drug dealers (namely pills, pill poppers, and pill pushers). I was just taking a moment of my time to let you know that I am aware of your existence and disagreed with you concerning this topic.
I think you're confusing me with someone else.

Quote:
By the way, my condolences on the premature departure of your relative.
Thank you.
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  #135  
Old 01-30-2012, 01:19 PM
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Re: witchcraft

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
I think you're confusing me with someone else.

I feel like an idiot, and you were right. I was rendering a false accusation. Will you forgive me, please.

(By the way, I will find something else to disagree with you and not bring a false charge.)

*withdraws with hat in hand*
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  #136  
Old 01-30-2012, 01:20 PM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: witchcraft

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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I feel like an idiot, and you were right. I was rendering a false accusation. Will you forgive me, please.

(By the way, I will find something else to disagree with you and not bring a false charge.)
No problem!
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  #137  
Old 01-30-2012, 01:21 PM
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Re: witchcraft

BByrd, it is you that I have the disagreement with. Those posts made to Timmy were for you.
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  #138  
Old 01-30-2012, 02:53 PM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: witchcraft

So, are we giving up on a def of witchcraft?
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  #139  
Old 01-30-2012, 03:28 PM
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Re: witchcraft

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Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
So, are we giving up on a def of witchcraft?
No. We are going to stick with the definition provided by Flute as that was the topic under discussion (not pill popping or syrup slurping).
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  #140  
Old 01-30-2012, 03:34 PM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: witchcraft

Ah, "Bewitched" then? k
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