Louisiana Prohibits Cash For 2nd Hand Goods.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I found the acutal bill

http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/343620

It appears the law does not say you cannot use money to buy/sell second hand stuff. it appears to be an update of an existing law. It looks like it simply reqiures the collection of information from the sellers of second hand things and makes people who buy the stuff "dealers"

Pawn shops are exempted but there are other laws that deal with Pawn shops. it looks more like maybe this is to catch everyone else dealing in junk up with pawn shops etc.

I really do dislike it when internet idiots just say really stupid things .

good grief. you cannot use money to buy stuff????? ignorant.

It's still a stupid law. I had found the actual bill too and wasn't finding some of the quotes that have to do with cash and was attempting to find out where these quotes came from.

But it still remains that a person even having a garage sale once a month must gather name, address, drivers license number & license number...

It still remains that the definition of dealer is so broad that it could include anyone who sells on ebay or craigslist forcing them to gather and report all of this information to the government because they sold a cord of firewood or a scooter that's been sitting out back for the last 5 years.

There has been much added and much stricken from the initial bill and I am trying to get an answer as to where the quotes they provided from the bill came from.

As I have stated before... we are only the land of the free for as long as we are the home of the brave. This bill is still an invasion of liberty and privacy that should not be tolerated in this country.

It has often been said... cash is privacy. Well... that is no more the case in Louisiana.

I have emailed the law firm that stated the following quote as being part of the bill...

The law then states that “A secondhand dealer shall not enter into any cash transactions in payment for the purchase of junk or used or secondhand property. Payment shall be made in the form of check, electronic transfers, or money order issued to the seller of the junk or used or secondhand property…”

I cannot find this in any of the online copies of the bill that I have perused. I will let you know what I hear from them.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

It's still a stupid law. I had found the actual bill too and wasn't finding some of the quotes that have to do with cash and was attempting to find out where these quotes came from.

But it still remains that a person even having a garage sale once a month must gather name, address, drivers license number & license number...

It still remains that the definition of dealer is so broad that it could include anyone who sells on ebay or craigslist forcing them to gather and report all of this information to the government because they sold a cord of firewood or a scooter that's been sitting out back for the last 5 years.

There has been much added and much stricken from the initial bill and I am trying to get an answer as to where the quotes they provided from the bill came from.

As I have stated before... we are only the land of the free for as long as we are the home of the brave. This bill is still an invasion of liberty and privacy that should not be tolerated in this country.

It has often been said... cash is privacy. Well... that is no more the case in Louisiana.

You have this backwards. It is the PURCHASE that must be recorded by a DEALER.

If you have a garage sale at your house every week, you dont have to collect names of everyone who buys from you.

you only have to collect this information if you are BUYING JUNK.

If you sell stuff on Ebay, there is no impact on the sell transaction.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Ferd

You have this backwards. It is the PURCHASE that must be recorded by a DEALER.

If you have a garage sale at your house every week, you dont have to collect names of everyone who buys from you.

you only have to collect this information if you are BUYING JUNK.

If you sell stuff on Ebay, there is no impact on the sell transaction.

Read the definition of a dealer.

They can call it a international conglomerate if they want to. But the real point is who they define it.

It's the broadness of the definition. And it is doubtful that they would mess with ebayers & craigslist people at first. But if the breadth of the definition allows it.... they will... eventually.

And... it's buying junk, used or secondhand property. Not just junk. As a matter of fact I believe that Junk was added later on in the process.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Read the definition of a dealer.

They can call it a international conglomerate if they want to. But the real point is who they define it.

It's the broadness of the definition. And it is doubtful that they would mess with ebayers & craigslist people at first. But if the breadth of the definition allows it.... they will... eventually.

Again, the only people who have to collect information are dealers who are BUYING. and they must pay with a check or money order.

The bill clearly defines this.

If you walk into a junk shop and buy something, you will not have to fork over any information and you can pay in cash.

If however, you walk into a junk shop with a coil of copper, you will have to prove you have leagal ownership of the copper before you can sell it and you will have to give identification.

this is clearly defined in the law.

[Ferd]

See page 4 from my linked copy of the bill. lines 19 and 20


(c) The name and address of the person or persons from whom the material
was purchased,

[Digging4Truth]

On the issue of cash usage... per your link.

§1864.3. Payment by check or money order required
11 Asecondhand dealer shall not enter into any cash transactions in payment for
12 the purchase of junk or used or secondhand property. Payment shall be made in the
13 form of check, electronic transfers, or money order issued to the seller of the junk or
14 used or secondhand property andmade payable to the name and address of the seller.
15 All payments made by check, electronic transfers, or money order shall be reported
16 separately in the daily reports required by R.S. 37:1866.

So... no cash.

You will now state... but that only pertains to dealers. First... so what? Cash is legal tender for public and private transactions. Who is to tell is when we can or cannot use cash.... but on to the dealer part. Again... per your link...

Anyone, other than a nonprofit entity,who buys, sells, trades
16 in, or otherwise acquires or disposes of junk or used or secondhand property more
17 frequently than once per month from any other person, other than a nonprofit entity,
18 shall be deemed as being engaged in the business of a secondhand dealer.

If you buy, sell or trade second hand stuff more than once a month. YOU are a dealer.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Ferd

See page 4 from my linked copy of the bill. lines 19 and 20


(c) The name and address of the person or persons from whom the material
was purchased,

Lord have mercy. You're working me to death here because you're just willy nilly picking out phrases.

I'll do more reading of your link later and provide you with information from your link later. I can't spend any more of my work time researching this.

But... even at this point. If you meet the definition of dealer... then you have to provide this information to the government on a private transaction.

I guess that doesn't strike you as beyond the pale.

I guess that's just good government.


That being the case... there's really nothing I can say that would affect your position anyway.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Lord have mercy. You're working me to death here because you're just willy nilly picking out phrases.

I'll do more reading of your link later and provide you with information from your link later. I can't spend any more of my work time researching this.

But... even at this point. If you meet the definition of dealer... then you have to provide this information to the government on a private transaction.

I guess that doesn't strike you as beyond the pale.

I guess that's just good government.


That being the case... there's really nothing I can say that would affect your position anyway.

You only have to collect information when you buys stuff. Not when you sell stuff. you can accpet cash when you sell stuff. you must use other than cash when you buy stuff. I read it several times.

bottom line, dealers who are buying second hand stuff, must pay with check or some other electronic form and collect information on those they buy from.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Ferd

You only have to collect information when you buys stuff. Not when you sell stuff. you can accpet cash when you sell stuff. you must use other than cash when you buy stuff. I read it several times.

bottom line, dealers who are buying second hand stuff, must pay with check or some other electronic form and collect information on those they buy from.

And I'm not comfortable with that. Recently I was going to buy a dog from the local pound. It was the breed I was looking for and if these dogs aren't bought in a certain amount of time they are often killed anyway. I approached them via email about buying the dog. They sent me a form to fill out. NO WAY MAN!!! That form was so intrusive there is no way I'm providing that sort of information to get a dog you're going to kill anyway. It is... to me... the principal of the thing. That is too much governmental tracking of what should be private transactions between free American citizens. If they know of someone doing illegal activity then pursue them through appropriate legal channels. This, in every form you have presented it in, is too much IMO. Way too much.

So taking in the actual definition for dealer in this law...

Anyone who who buys, sells, trades in, or otherwise acquires or disposes of junk or used or secondhand property more frequently than once per month cannot conduct their purchases of listed items in cash and must obtain a laundry list of information on anyone they do buy from. Also anyone who cannot a statement of ownership cannot sell those items.

I have several rolls of copper tubing in my backyard. How can I prove ownership of that?

I have an old handpump that belonged to my great grandpa. How can I prove ownership of that?

There is no level at which you have even presented this bill that I find acceptable.

That's the issue between us. If you find this bill acceptable... that's where the discussion ends because I do not, cannot and will not find this bill acceptable.

Bare minimum it's a case of guilty until proven innocent which is becoming very common these days.


It's a level of government tracking of private transactions that you, apprently, find palatable. The issue between us isn't in the details. It's in whether we find this law as acceptable.


I, absolutely, do not.

You, apparently, do.

I know that, from my side, I will not be crossing over.

As I've stated in the past when discussing these things with you. I just wonder where the line of "Too much" is. What would they have to do to finally make you say hey... this is too much.

It is FAR, far, far from my line. I can tell you that,