Baptism

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Yes, how about the context of that passage? At the end of John 3 Jesus is baptizing people.

Yes and it fits perfectly with the MIkval (baptismal sign of followers to certain groups) Note Joh 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
These were being baptises because they were beocming followers of Christ even those that were baptised of John as his followers, were being rebaptised as followers of Christ.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Regardless of one's position on mode or formula, I believe water baptism is part of the plan of salvation. Not in that it provides any spiritual grace, but because God ordained it to be so. Much like the Lord's Supper. There are various sacraments, all serve a purpose rather one believes they are symbolic of inner truths or actual means of the impartation of grace.

I see the Christian life as a journey. That means that as the Christian grows in faith obedience will grow also. It's been said that one is lost if they perish before being water baptized. I believe God sees the heart. One who refuses to be baptized out of pride or a contrary will shall be judged by God in accordance to their disposition. One who perishes while on the way to be baptized or while learning that baptism is a Christian sacrament will be judged according to their disposition.

I'd argue that one who refuses to be baptized may not have saving faith. Thus baptism isn't the issue. It's their unbelief. They simply don't believe the Word of God.

Baptism, God ordained it, Jesus commanded it, and Christians embrace and practice it.

God is just.

I don't disagree other than it is not any more salvational than circumsision. Here is something to think about the Mikvah was performed imediatly after profession of faith as it was part of the individuals profession of faith. In the beleif of said teaching or teacher. As it should be today Baptism is the public confession of faith as it was in that day. Some one that does not want to publicly confess Christ, Christ says he will not confess them to his father!!!

It is all wrapped up together, salvation come through faith in the work on the cross. But if we don't confess Christ through Mikvah Christ won't confess us to his father, which basicly negates our faith until we let the world know we are followers of Christ in baptism. HMMM Faith with out works is dead. See for the most part we are on the same page just different ways of saying it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I don't disagree other than it is not any more salvational than circumsision. Here is something to think about the Mikvah was performed imediatly after profession of faith as it was part of the individuals profession of faith. In the beleif of said teaching or teacher. As it should be today Baptism is the public confession of faith as it was in that day. Some one that does not want to publicly confess Christ, Christ says he will not confess them to his father!!!

It is all wrapped up together, salvation come through faith in the work on the cross. But if we don't confess Christ through Mikvah Christ won't confess us to his father, which basicly negates our faith until we let the world know we are followers of Christ in baptism. HMMM Faith with out works is dead. See for the most part we are on the same page just different ways of saying it.

I see. And I like the way you said it.

Appreciate your response bro.

[NorCal]

Looks like we have all come to the same conclusion, that baptism is necessary for salvation. Wither in "profession of Faith in Christ", or for the "Remission of Sins".

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Looks like we have all come to the same conclusion, that baptism is necessary for salvation. Wither in "profession of Faith in Christ", or for the "Remission of Sins".

i believe it could be for both, but the prefession of faith had to happen, just like the ethiopian and phillip.

what hinders me from being baptized? Phillip replied do you believe with all your heart and soul, and what we have here is a romans 10:9-10 comming into play. then He was baptized.

[Godsdrummer]

The only thing I have against three steppers is that they place too much Emphasis on works (actions) taking the believers security of salvation in Christ Through faith, and placing if in the works (actions) of man.

Which brings into play adding to the word of God things that are not salvational, causing us to become like the pharise that searched scripture trying to work thier way to eternal life.

There is a grave differance between trying to accieve salvation by doing things, as apposed one that does things because of salvation and Love. Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments, Should maybe be read my commandments will become common place to you because you love me. When one love someone they do things for that person without thinking because it is a natural response to Love. It is not love when one does something because they think or know that it is the thing that they are supposed to do.

If one is baptised just because they think it is a commandment, and something they MUST do they are doing it for the wrong reason.

We don't take communion because it is salvational yet we are commanded to do it often in rememberance of him. Yet just because baptism is done around the time of sinners comming to Christ we have made it part of a salvation plan which was never ment to be. Think about this we are never commanded to speak in tongues, further we are not commanded to recieve the Holy Ghost. It is a gift!!! Peter never said you must recieve the holy ghost, he said YOU SHALL recieve the holy ghost for it is promised to you.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

The only thing I have against three steppers is that they place too much Emphasis on works (actions) taking the believers security of salvation in Christ Through faith, and placing if in the works (actions) of man.

Which brings into play adding to the word of God things that are not salvational, causing us to become like the pharise that searched scripture trying to work thier way to eternal life.

There is a grave differance between trying to accieve salvation by doing things, as apposed one that does things because of salvation and Love. Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments, Should maybe be read my commandments will become common place to you because you love me. When one love someone they do things for that person without thinking because it is a natural response to Love. It is not love when one does something because they think or know that it is the thing that they are supposed to do.

If one is baptised just because they think it is a commandment, and something they MUST do they are doing it for the wrong reason.

We don't take communion because it is salvational yet we are commanded to do it often in rememberance of him. Yet just because baptism is done around the time of sinners comming to Christ we have made it part of a salvation plan which was never ment to be. Think about this we are never commanded to speak in tongues, further we are not commanded to recieve the Holy Ghost. It is a gift!!! Peter never said you must recieve the holy ghost, he said YOU SHALL recieve the holy ghost for it is promised to you.

[mfblume]

Godsdrummer,

Peter said baptism saves, whereas nothing was said like that about communion.