Is it a sin for women to shave, pluck or otherwise

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

It doesn't bother me a bit that some pastors ask the men in the church to be clean shaven (mine included). But i can say that if i was going to a church and the pastor didnt know the Word any better than that...i don't believe i would go back either.

It bothers me that any man would try to force members to do things they don't have to do...some people have control issues...Napoleon complex..the little god complex

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Can we at least admit this position (that of your pastor I assume) is very complicated?

Assuming it was a good reaction to the hippie movement (I don't accept that BTW), how fast should the church be in responding to the cultural fads? Are we not a bit slow on this one? Did it take them 25 yrs to start preaching against beards and moustaches in 1960?

Not a heaven/hell issue? I agree, and would not consider shaving/not shaving because of pastoral whims. Neither would I accept instruction on circumcision/or not, nor the eating of meats and keeping of Holy Days...
It's time we asked some serious questions. Have we offended without cause those who wear facial hair? If so, we need to repent corporately and our leadership needs to grow facial hair as a sign of humility and sincere repentance.

That's fine, but you then have no place in the ministry if you will not submit to an elder. Seemed that Timothy received instruction from his pastor on circumcision.

[Sister Alvear]

Well...I think some people need to grow up! Cultures and times change but we serve a Jesus that never changes HOWEVER He is adaptable to all people and cultures...he invites us to learn of Him who is meek and lowly in heart...or can we say humble...and gentle...

His beard was plucked so says the Bible...we do not have a direct account of how this happened but if we take it at face value he had a beard...for a Jewish man to not have his beard, it was considered humiliation. Think about the story where David's servants had half their beards shaved off (II Sam 10:4) that mixed w/ the fact that their garments were cut off above the waist, exposing their backside ended up causing a war to break out..

Now by the same reasoning I do not think men have to wear robes and sandals but to say they never did is foolish...they did and in some parts of the world still do...

I am NOT saying men should wear a beard really 99% of our men in our church do not even wear a mustashe..

I personally think a man looks nicer clean shaven but of course I am an UC...ha....
__________________

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

That's fine, but you then have no place in the ministry if you will not submit to an elder. Seemed that Timothy received instruction from his pastor on circumcision.

What Timothy did to be more plausible to the Jews is one thing.

Nevertheless we have now received specific scriptural instruction on the matter.

1 Corinthians 7:18-19
18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

Notice it does not end with, ...and the personal preferences of your pastor.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

That's fine, but you then have no place in the ministry if you will not submit to an elder. Seemed that Timothy received instruction from his pastor on circumcision.

Submitting to an Elder never meant doing the silliest whims of someone else without question. It was never a license for someone to be called Elder and teach false doctrine and expect everyone to obey it

[Sam]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

I shaved when I was asked to minister at a UPC church and was scheduled for two weeks. I preached on a Sunday Morning and night and had 12 filled with the Holy Ghost and 15 baptized in a church of around 100 that had very few results in the years past. The Pastor met me for breakfast on Monday morning and said that someone had seen my web page and that I had facial hair in some of the pictures. I said that is true but when I go into places that do not have facial hair or wear jewelry or whatever, I honor their customs and traditions and I shave before I get there. He asked me if I had planned to grow the facial hair (a very short goatee) back and I said yes. He said, well - This Revival is over, you can pack and check out of the hotel today! WOW! Was I surprised and sad as I thought this man had good sense! Unbelievable! He left there soon after the meeting and has not pastored again. What is wrong with people?

Well, in my opinion
1. the pastor had a right to cancel the revival
2. it's sad that he felt that way

[OfInterest]

As a wise woman used to say..." 'Hair' we are on hair again."

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

That's fine, but you then have no place in the ministry if you will not submit to an elder. Seemed that Timothy received instruction from his pastor on circumcision.

The instruction was for Timothy to minister to those who had not yet let the gospel free them from the bondage of enforced circumcision. Timothy was not to preach the necessity of circumcision to all new converts.

I've seen American preachers wearing traditional, native skirts in certain places in order to be more accepted in the community. It's interesting to me that these men would go against their "standards" in order to be more accepted by the less apostolically astute populace. It makes sense.

It seems that Paul asked Timothy to violate a clear apostolic stand (teaching circumcision leads to bondage) in order to reach people who had an inferior understanding of the liberty contained in the gospel message. (Galatians 5:2) Paul also stated in another case that Titus was compelled by "false brethren" to be circumcised, a condition that would lead to bondage.

So often it's the other way around. We try to force all our traditions upon others even though we know it will sour many on the gospel message before they ever get close enough to our Lord to taste the sweet.

Thoughts?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by OfInterest

As a wise woman used to say..." 'Hair' we are on hair again."

It shows what is the abundance of hearts.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

...I've seen American preachers wearing traditional, native skirts in certain places in order to be more accepted in the community. It's interesting to me that these men would go against their "standards" in order to be more accepted by the less apostolically astute populace. It makes sense. ...

Or, some ministers will shave or take off a wedding ring or put on a necktie before ministering in a place where there is not a good understanding of grace.