150th Anniversary

[Uncle Joe]

Tomorrow, April 12th, is the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War when Confederate soldiers opened fired on Fort Sumter.

It was the first war to involve trench warfare; observation balloons; iron-clad ships; and the use of repeating and breech-loading rifles, mines, and hand grenades.

More Americans were killed in that war than were killed in World Wars One and Two, Korea, and Vietnam combined.

[NorCal]

Originally Posted by Uncle Joe

Tomorrow, April 12th, is the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War when Confederate soldiers opened fired on Fort Sumter.

It was the first war to involve trench warfare; observation balloons; iron-clad ships; and the use of repeating and breech-loading rifles, mines, and hand grenades.

More Americans were killed in that war than were killed in World Wars One and Two, Korea, and Vietnam combined.

Why is that even a statistic? If we are talking about "Dogs eat Dogs", why are Cats brought into the statistic? Shouldn't you just use the Union Numbers to compare the other wars so, because technically the Confederate were a different "nation", having succeeded from the United States of America.

Theoretically, most of the Union soldiers were not Native Born Americans; quiet a few of them were foreign immigrants just arriving through Elise Island.

Oh and "God Bless the Republicans who fought for Emancipation".

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Why is that even a statistic? If we are talking about "Dogs eat Dogs", why are Cats brought into the statistic? Shouldn't you just use the Union Numbers to compare the other wars so, because technically the Confederate were a different "nation", having succeeded from the United States of America.

Theoretically, most of the Union soldiers were not Native Born Americans; quiet a few of them were foreign immigrants just arriving through Elise Island.

Oh and "God Bless the Republicans who fought for Emancipation".

A lot of the manpower the North used to over power the South did come from recent immigrants. A common inducement to enlist was the proviso that as soon as they "took up arms" on behalf of the Federal government of the United States they became citizens.

Even today, you can lose your U.S. citizenship if you "take up arms" in a foreign army. Those dead Irish boys laying on the field at Gettysburg were as much Americans as the commanders who ordered them into battle.

Even while the Southerners were "in rebellion" against the U.S., they were still considered American citizens by the Federals. The Federals were fighting in fact, with the aim of imposing U.S. Federal citizenship upon the Southerners. That was the purpose of the North's fight. "Emancipation" was the underlying and unavoidable theme, but the sovereignty of Washington over the South was the direct aim.

... Just the observations of an Ancient & Classical History major. Everything that has happened since about 500 A.D. is "new stuff" to me.

[pelathais]

... another thing to consider is that prior to the 20th Century, almost every army to ever take the field suffered more casualties from disease than they did from actual battle field deaths.

If the armies of WW I and WW II had taken the field during the 19th Century, at the time of the U.S. Civil War, the death totals would have been much, much higher. More Yanks and Rebs died from disease than from bullets or cannon fire.

We have to take disease into account when comparing the casualty totals from war prior to the 20th Century with those during and after that century.

[NorCal]

My point was not to diminish he efforts of recent immigrants. My point was to diminish the "more Americans Died" statistic. That's like saying in WWII, more people died in the world. Duh, because Both Allies and Axis were fighting.

At the time, the Confederates were not considered a Part of the USA, thus saying more Citizens of the USA died in the Civil War then in any other war combined is not a true statistic. In all actuality they were 2 nations at war.

[RamoneWooddell]

Originally Posted by pelathais

A lot of the manpower the North used to over power the South did come from recent immigrants. A common inducement to enlist was the proviso that as soon as they "took up arms" on behalf of the Federal government of the United States they became citizens.

You are correct in that the UNITED STATES INC did impose an illegal authority not granted to it within the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, Northwest Ordinance, or the Constitution for the united States much less the Constitution of the Confederate States of America. This was in fact the invasion of a tyrant rogue government. Per the above documents by virtue of the declaration of the fact that each State was a State or Nation, and that they each were sovereign they could dissolve the union between themselves and any other State. It was only in the minds of Radical Republicans and a President who would not be restrained by the very document he says he sought to protect and defend.

Even today, you can lose your U.S. citizenship if you "take up arms" in a foreign army. Those dead Irish boys laying on the field at Gettysburg were as much Americans as the commanders who ordered them into battle.

Even while the Southerners were "in rebellion" against the U.S., they were still considered American citizens by the Federals. The Federals were fighting in fact, with the aim of imposing U.S. Federal citizenship upon the Southerners. That was the purpose of the North's fight. "Emancipation" was the underlying and unavoidable theme, but the sovereignty of Washington over the South was the direct aim.

The CSA was not in rebellion to the US, she was a separate and distinct Government. There would have been peace between the two countries if only the US had removed their Federal troops from CSA land. They were asked to leave and refused thereby being invaders. There was no rebellion on the part of the CSA. What was done to the CSA is what is repeatedly done today... the colonization of independent states and governments to make them servants to themselves.

As a side note. The Confederate States of America has been under occupation by the UNITED STATES Inc for the past 150 years. There was never a surrender of the Governments nor a peace treaty signed.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by RamoneWooddell

You are correct in that the UNITED STATES INC did impose an illegal authority not granted to it within the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, Northwest Ordinance, or the Constitution for the united States much less the Constitution of the Confederate States of America. This was in fact the invasion of a tyrant rogue government. Per the above documents by virtue of the declaration of the fact that each State was a State or Nation, and that they each were sovereign they could dissolve the union between themselves and any other State. It was only in the minds of Radical Republicans and a President who would not be restrained by the very document he says he sought to protect and defend.



The CSA was not in rebellion to the US, she was a separate and distinct Government. There would have been peace between the two countries if only the US had removed their Federal troops from CSA land. They were asked to leave and refused thereby being invaders. There was no rebellion on the part of the CSA. What was done to the CSA is what is repeatedly done today... the colonization of independent states and governments to make them servants to themselves.

As a side note. The Confederate States of America has been under occupation by the UNITED STATES Inc for the past 150 years. There was never a surrender of the Governments nor a peace treaty signed.

[Sam]

Save your Confederate money, boy, the South's gonna rise again.

[RamoneWooddell]

Originally Posted by Sam

Save your Confederate money, boy, the South's gonna rise again.

The US would have to be in pretty bad shape to withdraw from the CSA. Once a leach this big attaches it takes a lot to pull it off. It has its teeth in the USA as well. There is no Confederate money by this point. Though the exiled the CSA Constitution does give the Nation Government the ability to print its own money. This would in turn need to be backed by precious metals and not thin air. In time this would not be inconceivable but not likely at this point in time.

It is interesting however that the slogan "The South Will Rise Again" is founded in the fact that the Confederate States of America was never actually dissolved but rather exiled.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Sam

Save your Confederate money, boy, the South's gonna rise again.

Those FRNs aren't doing too good these days, I hear...