Other upci splits

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Sam

OK,

I used to get the Texas Sentinel when Bro. Burr was editor and for a while I got the AMF magazine, plus I've also read his booklet on women's hair and I know you wouldn't go along with lots of the stuff he taught.

Bro. Burr was a very good writer.

I have to be honest, I know nothing about him. But the bit about his organizational opinions caught my attention. I am determined never again to belong to any group that elects people to positions and for me, most all of what has split off from the UPC is just the same song, second verse. I see Global as another UPC without dress codes.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I have fallen in love with the Willow Creek way of providing resources, ideas, inspiration, and direction for any church that volunteers to become involved. In my 6 years of belonging to the Willow Creek Association, I have been provided with multitudes of more ideas and resources than my 6 years of being licensed in the UPC, and my 11 years of "belonging" elsewhere. Plus, there's no official "Leadership", as in someone with authority to dictate what the local church does. It feels incredibly New Testament.

And there are other similar groups out there, for example, The Mosaic Alliance, of which we're also a member. Their help hasn't been quite as great in quantity, but more helpful in person-to-person help.

Sounds like a wonderful fellowship to be part of.

However, that didn't fully answer the question regarding appointing elders.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I have to be honest, I know nothing about him. But the bit about his organizational opinions caught my attention. I am determined never again to belong to any group that elects people to positions and for me, most all of what has split off from the UPC is just the same song, second verse. I see Global as another UPC without dress codes.

Much to the chagrin of those who are looking for a "UPC without dress code," I can tell you that this is not what Global is.

[Encryptus]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Much to the chagrin of those who are looking for a "UPC without dress code," I can tell you that this is not what Global is.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Sounds like a wonderful fellowship to be part of.

However, that didn't fully answer the question regarding appointing elders.

Yeah, sorry. And I know you're in connection to Soma, which is another great place of support.

I have an "Elder" over me, who I answer to voluntarily and submit to. He isn't elected, but has "morphed" into my overseer. While we follow his oversight, he has no legal connection to the church.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by notofworks

How do you feel about Burr's opinions? I fairly well agree, myself.

I believed Elder Burr's book.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

M. E. Burr wrote a book called "New Testament Church Government & Tithing" he was the editor of the Texas Sentinel. He advocated local church sovereighty under the leadership of the local pastor. That the pastor over pastor political system of the UPC was unscriptural. The elected officials held no divine office due to an political election and had no authority over the local church. Elder Burr was thrown out of the organization because he would not recant. Several notable Brethren defended him and many of them were thrown out. Thus they formed the AMF at Baker, La. 1968.

Did the AMF manage to keep that structure - emphasis on local pastor?

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Sam

There may have been more there than just standards.
One issue was ministers ruling over other ministers, like district presbyters having authority over other ministers. From what I understand, another reason was because MB was not elected Gen. Supt. so he and a bunch left to form their own org. If this is not true maybe someone with more knowledge of the situation can correct me.

One of my UPCI pastor uncles was there to see it firsthand in TX. He told me the story a few years ago as we passed a AMF church in his car.

Burr wanted to be Texas District Sup, lost to Holley, took it very personally, and then used the issue of whether churches should have a board or be 100% run by the pastor as a wedge issue to call to arms what became the core of the AMF.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Much to the chagrin of those who are looking for a "UPC without dress code," I can tell you that this is not what Global is.

...and I may be wrong. But I see a General Superintendent, a General Conference, a General Secretary, District Superintendents, on and on and on. they have different titles but it all looks the same. And it's certainly very pentecostal.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Bowas

Wow! I didn't know our own Mike Blume was even a consideration. What one learns on forums.

"Mark Bassett"
"Miss Brattified"
"Marven Borrmann"
"