Light/Lessor Light

[bishoph]

Since we have been discussing this subject on another thread I thought it deserves its own thread to give it justice.

For those of you that are proponents of the "light/lessor light" ideology, please give the rest of us a scriptural basis for your viewpoint. Let's remember not to make this personal but rather to "reason" the scriptural and ideological arguments of this doctrine.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Since we have been discussing this subject on another thread I thought it deserves its own thread to give it justice.

For those of you that are proponents of the "light/lessor light" ideology, please give the rest of us a scriptural basis for your viewpoint. Let's remember not to make this personal but rather to "reason" the scriptural and ideological arguments of this doctrine.

Romans 10:8-11 (New Living Translation)


8 In fact, it says,

“The message is very close at hand;
it is on your lips and in your heart.”

And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”

And I believe what the scriptures say.

[bishoph]

So are you proposing that one must only believe in their heart and confess with their mouth to be saved?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by bishoph

So are you proposing that one must only believe in their heart and confess with their mouth to be saved?

I believe one is reconciled to God by the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made, He is the source of our salvation. One enters into the life that this salvation provides by believing and confessing. Then from this reality grow in relationship with the Lord, and receive all that the gospel provides in this life. This will then prepare one for the purpose that is their destiny in the age to come. Salvation is not a destination it is literally journey. Our focus must turn from ourselves and onto what Jesus has already accomplished.

Hey, you asked.

[bishoph]

It is interesting to me that so many on this forum want to keep referring to the completed work of Christ in relationship to salvation. This is a given! We all know that it is his sacrifice and his grace alone that saves ones soul. However, to simply state ones belief in the finished work of Calvary does not constitute salvation, any more than my declaration that I believe a Bentley is the only car I will drive makes me the owner of a Bentley.

In Romans 10 you referenced verses 8-11, these are scriptures generally not adressed in many Apostolic settings because of their misuse by those who promote easy believism. The reality of these scriptures does not negate the "Apostolic" teaching concerning salvation but rather supports it. Let us examine the text in question.

8 In fact, it says, “The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart.” And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”[e] 12 Jew and Gentile[f] are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

If one were to take this scripture simply by itself and try to establish the "methodology" of salvation, one could easily say that all that is needed for salvation is to verbally declare thier "belief." If you confess with your mouth.....you will be saved and Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord (verbal) will be saved Yet not even the most liberal among us would advocate such as truth.

So we then see that there is more than speaking/confessing with the mouth to accomplish salvation. The Apostle addresses the act of believing. Believing is not an intangible thought process alone, but rather it is the intangible faith/belief that brings forth a tangible/visible action. Faith (intangible belief) if it have not works (tangible action) is dead being alone. (James 2:17 KJV) So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. (NLT)

more in a few

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by bishoph

It is interesting to me that so many on this forum want to keep referring to the completed work of Christ in relationship to salvation. This is a given! We all know that it is his sacrifice and his grace alone that saves ones soul. However, to simply state ones belief in the finished work of Calvary does not constitute salvation, any more than my declaration that I believe a Bentley is the only car I will drive makes me the owner of a Bentley.

In Romans 10 you referenced verses 8-11, these are scriptures generally not adressed in many Apostolic settings because of their misuse by those who promote easy believism. The reality of these scriptures does not negate the "Apostolic" teaching concerning salvation but rather supports it. Let us examine the text in question.

8 In fact, it says, “The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart.” And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”[e] 12 Jew and Gentile[f] are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

If one were to take this scripture simply by itself and try to establish the "methodology" of salvation, one could easily say that all that is needed for salvation is to verbally declare thier "belief." If you confess with your mouth.....you will be saved and Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord (verbal) will be saved Yet not even the most liberal among us would advocate such as truth.

So we then see that there is more than speaking/confessing with the mouth to accomplish salvation. The Apostle addresses the act of believing. Believing is not an intangible thought process alone, but rather it is the intangible faith/belief that brings forth a tangible/visible action. Faith (intangible belief) if it have not works (tangible action) is dead being alone. (James 2:17 KJV) So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. (NLT)
more in a few

When you go this direction you are adding to what Jesus did, you are saying what he has done is not enough. You are saying I must add my obedience, and/or my good works to what Jesus did, so you are diminishing the power of His completed work.

No one is denying that once a person has truly believed and confess faith in Christ that good works will follow and obedience will follow. However, salvation for all mankind is already complete in HIM, some just wander around before entering into the LIFE that HE has accomplished.