When Is Enough, Enough?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Today, I was told about a young man, in his early 60's who died.


This young man served his country well in the military.


However, this veteran did not have any health insurance at all.


He had health issues, but not any major or chronic illnesses that would logically lead him to an early death.


He went to the hospital back in February because he was feeling ill.


He didn't leave the hospital until a few days ago, when he left a dead man.


His hospital bills totalled nearly 1 MILLION DOLLARS, not including the fees for the doctors, specialists and techs who tried to keep him alive!

1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

$1,000,000.00!!! PLUS FEES!!!




He did not have any health insurance, but he was registered with the VA.


The VA will foot this bill, but at a reduced rate.


We will probably reimburse the hospital around $180,000.00 and LEGALLY they aren't allowed to ask for more from us or from the family. This is the return they will receive on their MILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENT!


Even $180,000.00 for one veteran is a big chunk of money, especially for a VA system that is swamped with other chronically ill and dying veterans.



I questioned, as I tried to digest the magnitude of all of this:

When is enough, enough?


I mean, at one point do you let someone die?

I'm not talking about cases where there is unnecessary, untreatable pain and suffering.




The doctors knew he did not have insurance.


The hospital knew he did not have insurance.


The VA knew he did not have insurance.


Now everyone is grimmacing at their losses.



The hospital WILL NEVER recoup the money spent on trying to keep this guy alive, who ultimately died in spite of their efforts.

The same not-for-profit hospital that has lost so much money that staff has had to be relieved and preventative outreach programs for the poor have been completely eliminated.



If the hospital is going to take a huge loss, the doctors will too as the VA only reimburses so much for their time and services, but maybe they should be reimbursed less. After all, the veteran did die.

What were they thinking in racking up such a high bill on a guy that died anyway?

Where are the checks in balances to ensure that doctors don't prolong the inevitable?

If we can hold teachers accountable for their children's lack of learning, where is the difference in holding doctor's responsible for a patient's failure to thrive?

Reads harsh and I don't mean it to be-- but his bill came to close to 1 MILLION DOLLARS, not including the doctors' and specialists' fees!!!

Who is going to pay for all of that?

WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR A DEAD MAN'S MEDICAL BILL? WHO LET IT BECOME SO EXPENSIVE AND WHY??


Unfortunately, no one, in this case. No one and everyone!



The Orlando VA has tens of thousands of chronically ill and dying veterans that are not going to die really soon. We are already turning everyone away for most services if they have any kind of private insurance.

If this veteran was going to die anyway, should we have spent $180,000.00 on him trying to keep him alive?




Of course, I know all of the "bleeding heart" answers to this scenario.

I already know that you can't put a price on a human life.



However, just because you can't put a price on a life, I am absolutely sure that spending 1 MILLION dollars on a guy for 2 months of hospital care only to have him die anyway is NOT SUSTAINABLE.




Leaving emotions out of this, maybe someone should have decided back in March. For this guy, enough is enough.


Whether the decision was made March 10 or April 22, the outcome was still the same.

April 22, 2010 was the day that everyone lost.

[Praxeas]

Are you saying the doctors, instead of doing their Hippocratic oath should have euthanized this man before it got too expensive?

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Are you saying the doctors, instead of doing their Hippocratic oath should have euthanized this man before it got too expensive?

And how were they to know he wasn't going to make it. Boy I don't want Jermyn on Obama's staff to determine who lives and who dies!

BT

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

And how were they to know he wasn't going to make it. Boy I don't want Jermyn on Obama's staff to determine who lives and who dies!

BT

Yeah Im kinda confused about what he means here..enough

[sbo1971]

WOW!!!! More liberal propaganda. Do you ever stop? I wonder are you one of those democrats that pretend to be something that you are not in order to get into a group/organiztion in order to bring it down or prosoletyze people (like what they are trying to do with the Tea Party movement)? I really dont know much about you but I must say that what I have seen thus far leads me to question your motives for being on this forum.

[Truthseeker]

so much waste in the medical field.

[Praxeas]

Imagine the money we can save if gave every Doctor a shotgun and a pair of dice

[Jermyn Davidson]

I was just voicing the thoughts that were on my mind.


The scenario is real.


The losses are huge-- for everyone involved.


Was it even worth it?


He's dead! Now what are we going to do? What do we have to show for our investment?



I don't know what the right solution is.

Obviously, euthanizing someone before their time is criminal.

But how about allowing someone to die?


Whether it happened in March or April, the results were the same.



Maybe we should raise taxes just so the hospitals can continue to do EVERYTHING they can to save EVERY life and pay EVERY doctor, specialist and tech involved in saving EVERY life.


I guess they deserve something for their efforts....

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by sbo1971

WOW!!!! More liberal propaganda. Do you ever stop? I wonder are you one of those democrats that pretend to be something that you are not in order to get into a group/organiztion in order to bring it down or prosoletyze people (like what they are trying to do with the Tea Party movement)? I really dont know much about you but I must say that what I have seen thus far leads me to question your motives for being on this forum.

"The word is near you, on your lips and in your heart"(that is, the word of faith which we preach); because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I was just voicing the thoughts that were on my mind.


The scenario is real.


The losses are huge-- for everyone involved.


Was it even worth it?


He's dead! Now what are we going to do? What do we have to show for our investment?



I don't know what the right solution is.

Obviously, euthanizing someone before their time is criminal.

But how about allowing someone to die?


Whether it happened in March or April, the results were the same.



Maybe we should raise taxes just so the hospitals can continue to do EVERYTHING they can to save EVERY life and pay EVERY doctor, specialist and tech involved in saving EVERY life.

If the man went to the Hospital he went to get help man. Should the doctors check him out and say "Hmmmm, you have a 75% chance of making it, but that 25% bothers me....go take a hike and die on the rail road tracks"?

Maybe the man should have went to the VA hospital? Don't we already use taxes for that?