|
Tab Menu 1
Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other. |
|
12-11-2008, 10:35 PM
|
|
A Student of the Word
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,132
|
|
Bible Studies
Over the past few months I have been attempting to get started on a couple of Bible studies - on several forums, including my own. All, with out success. Time and energy have seem to be two of my fleeting commodities. Therefore, I am going to attempt to do the impossible – to do one Bible study on at least ten different forums. Or, perhaps it is 12 or 14 sites. The problem is that even after cutting back on the number of web sites I have been contributing to (some, admittedly, very rarely) I come to the conclusion that I need to cut back even more of the sites I visit. I need to get the number down to four or five. No more than that. Last year I was a member in well over 20 different web communities and a site manager in over half of them.
So, as a test case, I am going to pick up on a new study, one I started back in August but never got very far with, a study on the book of Mathew, chapters 5 through 7. I still have a lot of work to do on this study – it will be a work in progress!
The purpose in posting this study on several boards is to generate as much interest and participation as possible, because I think it is important that Christians know and understand this major teaching of our Savior, with hopefully some additional insights not usually presented in most books focusing on the ”beatitudes” of Mt 5. My goal is to identify those forums that have the most (or best) participation in this study and drop my membership in the remaining forums, in order to get the number of my web sites down to something more manageable.
Except for answering individual questions, I am planning to post exactly the same information on all of the selected sites.
Now, as we get further into the “holiday” season, and with family and friends coming and going, I don’t expect to get very far between now and New Year’s Day week. I will, however take a look at the original introduction post, edit it where necessary and post it on this forum to get folks started thinking about the subject, and, hopefully, to get some people started reading and studying these chapters before the actual study begins.
May God bless this effort – and everyone participating in it.
Shalom Aleichem
Peace be unto you.
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
|
12-16-2008, 07:23 PM
|
|
A Student of the Word
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,132
|
|
One additional pre-study note:
I need to make it really clear that I have no hidden agendas in perusing this study. The study clearly presumes that Jesus was a Jew, living, ministering and dieing as a Jew, and that His teachings were as a Jew instructing other Jews. The necessary assumption is that in order to better understand and appreciate what Jesus had to say, one must have some understanding of the history, culture, religion and language that defined how Jesus and His disciples ministered.
Before continuing to explore the Hebrew thought process (world view) concerning the writing and interpretation of the New Testament scriptures, it should be pointed out that there are notable critics of this approach to studying these texts. One such critic is Mr Tim Warner.
While I personally subscribe to the theory that much (but not all) of the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew (and/or other Semitic language), especially the books of Matthew and Hebrews, I am of the opinion that a good number of N.T. books need to be read and studied from a Hebrew perspective, not Greek or Latin. However, Mr. Tim Warner presents some compelling concerns and arguments for consideration and further investigation.
The following article excerpt and comments are referenced here for your information, much like the article, “Beware the Leaven of the Pharisees” by Hannah Nesher in the D’var Emet, posted on my web site’s front page (hashaliach.com/).
Excerpt from the article, “Was the New Testament Written in Hebrew?” Copyright © (date ?) Tim Warner. www.pfrs.org/jewish/hr08.html
“The Hebrew New Testament proponents would have us trust them to fix the faulty Scriptures, by relying on their supposed knowledge of Jewish customs and figures of speech. In short, we need to sit at the feet of rabbis in order to understand what was written. But, by editing the text of the New Testament to conform to so-called Jewish thought only leads AWAY from the message preserved by the providence of God. God promised to preserve His Word for every generation [ Psalm 12:6,7 Matt. 24:35]. God kept His word! The Traditional Greek text of the New Testament is reliable. Any changing [regardless of motive] of what has been preserved by God is a blatant violation of the commandment found in the last chapter of Revelation. Those who remove words that God has preserved in His Word, will be removed from the “Book of Life,” and those who add to His words, to them God will add the plagues.”
I used this excerpt from Mr. Warner’s article to illustrate only three things.
First. When one’s enthusiasm for a religious point of view become all engrossing, it leads one into serious error in thinking and judgment. Mr. Warner’s assertion that the proponents of the Hebrew New Testament would have us all sitting at the feet of Rabbis (presumably Observant Jewish Rabbis, not Messianic Rabbis), in order to “correct” or to “understand” the scriptures, does not give the author credit. Personally, I would much rather sit under a Messianic Rabbi who is accomplished in Hebrew and Greek languages (as well as English) and in Hebrew theology, and who is also able to interpret, illustrate and apply the first century Apostolic (biblical Hebrew) worldview of the scriptures to today’s world.I also enjoy sitting under a Gentile teacher who is competent in his/her religious history, cultures and languages.
Second. Frequently, when enthusiasm is substituted for serious study, one of the problems is the increase of exegetic errors, or in the case cited above, selecting wrong scriptures to prove a point. That is, citing Rev 22:18-19 to show that God will not allow the adding to or taking away from “this book” without serious consequences. The problem with citing this scripture is that it applies only to the ”book of revelation”, not to the entire Bible. The correct passages that should have been referenced would include the following:
De 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
De 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Pr 30:5-6 5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. {pure: Heb. purified} Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Third. Thinking that some English translation of copies of the original texts equate to receiving the original words of God straight from His mouth, and that one single translation is ”error free” are also major exegetical errors. The following is from a “Greek Manuscript” proponent of the New Testament, NOT a Hebrew text proponent!
Subject: The Greek New Testament of 1516 edition (Textus Receptus), compiled by Erasmus and used as the primary Greek source text for the KJV of the New Testament:
“Erasmus was not able to find a complete [Greek] manuscript of the New Testament, nor anything earlier that the twelfth century. So he had to use several manuscripts for various parts of the New Testament. For most of his work, he relied upon two inferior manuscripts* from the twelfth century (Codec 1 and Codes 2). For the book of revelation, he used another twelfth-century manuscript, which lacked the last leaf containing the last section of Revelation 22 (Codex 1r). For this section, as well as for others throughout Revelation where the manuscript was difficult to read, Erasmus used the Latin Vulgate and translated it back into Greek! Consequently, the Textus Receptus and KJV have erroneous verses at the end of Revelation. For example, in Revelation 22:14, the KJV reads, ”Blessed are they who do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life.” Superior manuscript* evidence, followed by all modern versions, supports the reading, “Blessed are they who wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life. The difference is very significant! The KJV tells us that works will get us eternal life; the better text tells us that we need our robes washed (i.e., we need to be cleansed by Jesus’ blood) to have eternal life. In Revelation 22:19 (quoted above) , which is the very verse that warns against changing the text, Erasmus changed “tree of life” to “book of life.” This alteration still appears in the KJV and NKJV. These are the kind of textual alterations that critics should take notice of!”
• The use of the terms “Inferior” and Superior” manuscripts are technical terms and do not mean one text is poorly written and another text better written. They refer to time, condition and discovery location of the manuscripts, and harmony of textual style and content as compared to other manuscripts from different periods and locations.
Essential Guide to Bible Versions, P.W. Comfort, Ph.D. © 2000, Tyndale House Publishers, Inc,. pg 102.
Dr. Comfort is a noted expert and teacher of ancient Greek biblical manuscripts and literature. He has also authored The New Greek-English Interlinear New Testament, The Origin of the Bible, The Tyndale Bible Dictionary, Essential Guide to Bible Versions, and The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts (with D. Barrett),
-----------
Conclusion:
While I personally think that most of the arguments presented on this particular subject are misleading and contain serious flaws, the concern that there are some who would attempt to Judaise the New Covenant Faith, i.e. attempt to (re) establish salvation by works of the law, rather than by grace through faith, is still a valid concern which needs to be continuously monitored, just as it was during the formative years of the church. In addition, I have also expressed the following concern: Too many Christian preachers and teachers have divorced the Hebrew religion, culture, religion and language of the Jewish Apostles and transformed Christ's church into a non-Jewish, western cultural religion. In 2,000 years, nothing much has changed!
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
|
12-17-2008, 12:25 PM
|
Registered Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,730
|
|
Re: One additional pre-study note:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaShaliach
I need to make it really clear that I have no hidden agendas in perusing this study. The study clearly presumes that Jesus was a Jew, living, ministering and dieing as a Jew, and that His teachings were as a Jew instructing other Jews. The necessary assumption is that in order to better understand and appreciate what Jesus had to say, one must have some understanding of the history, culture, religion and language that defined how Jesus and His disciples ministered.
Before continuing to explore the Hebrew thought process (world view) concerning the writing and interpretation of the New Testament scriptures, it should be pointed out that there are notable critics of this approach to studying these texts. One such critic is Mr Tim Warner.
While I personally subscribe to the theory that much (but not all) of the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew (and/or other Semitic language), especially the books of Matthew and Hebrews, I am of the opinion that a good number of N.T. books need to be read and studied from a Hebrew perspective, not Greek or Latin. However, Mr. Tim Warner presents some compelling concerns and arguments for consideration and further investigation.
The following article excerpt and comments are referenced here for your information, much like the article, “Beware the Leaven of the Pharisees” by Hannah Nesher in the D’var Emet, posted on my web site’s front page (hashaliach.com/).
Excerpt from the article, “Was the New Testament Written in Hebrew?” Copyright © (date ?) Tim Warner. www.pfrs.org/jewish/hr08.html
“The Hebrew New Testament proponents would have us trust them to fix the faulty Scriptures, by relying on their supposed knowledge of Jewish customs and figures of speech. In short, we need to sit at the feet of rabbis in order to understand what was written. But, by editing the text of the New Testament to conform to so-called Jewish thought only leads AWAY from the message preserved by the providence of God. God promised to preserve His Word for every generation [ Psalm 12:6,7 Matt. 24:35]. God kept His word! The Traditional Greek text of the New Testament is reliable. Any changing [regardless of motive] of what has been preserved by God is a blatant violation of the commandment found in the last chapter of Revelation. Those who remove words that God has preserved in His Word, will be removed from the “Book of Life,” and those who add to His words, to them God will add the plagues.”
I used this excerpt from Mr. Warner’s article to illustrate only three things.
First. When one’s enthusiasm for a religious point of view become all engrossing, it leads one into serious error in thinking and judgment. Mr. Warner’s assertion that the proponents of the Hebrew New Testament would have us all sitting at the feet of Rabbis (presumably Observant Jewish Rabbis, not Messianic Rabbis), in order to “correct” or to “understand” the scriptures, does not give the author credit. Personally, I would much rather sit under a Messianic Rabbi who is accomplished in Hebrew and Greek languages (as well as English) and in Hebrew theology, and who is also able to interpret, illustrate and apply the first century Apostolic (biblical Hebrew) worldview of the scriptures to today’s world.I also enjoy sitting under a Gentile teacher who is competent in his/her religious history, cultures and languages.
Second. Frequently, when enthusiasm is substituted for serious study, one of the problems is the increase of exegetic errors, or in the case cited above, selecting wrong scriptures to prove a point. That is, citing Rev 22:18-19 to show that God will not allow the adding to or taking away from “this book” without serious consequences. The problem with citing this scripture is that it applies only to the ”book of revelation”, not to the entire Bible. The correct passages that should have been referenced would include the following:
De 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
De 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Pr 30:5-6 5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. {pure: Heb. purified} Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Third. Thinking that some English translation of copies of the original texts equate to receiving the original words of God straight from His mouth, and that one single translation is ”error free” are also major exegetical errors. The following is from a “Greek Manuscript” proponent of the New Testament, NOT a Hebrew text proponent!
Subject: The Greek New Testament of 1516 edition (Textus Receptus), compiled by Erasmus and used as the primary Greek source text for the KJV of the New Testament:
“Erasmus was not able to find a complete [Greek] manuscript of the New Testament, nor anything earlier that the twelfth century. So he had to use several manuscripts for various parts of the New Testament. For most of his work, he relied upon two inferior manuscripts* from the twelfth century (Codec 1 and Codes 2). For the book of revelation, he used another twelfth-century manuscript, which lacked the last leaf containing the last section of Revelation 22 (Codex 1r). For this section, as well as for others throughout Revelation where the manuscript was difficult to read, Erasmus used the Latin Vulgate and translated it back into Greek! Consequently, the Textus Receptus and KJV have erroneous verses at the end of Revelation. For example, in Revelation 22:14, the KJV reads, ”Blessed are they who do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life.” Superior manuscript* evidence, followed by all modern versions, supports the reading, “Blessed are they who wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life. The difference is very significant! The KJV tells us that works will get us eternal life; the better text tells us that we need our robes washed (i.e., we need to be cleansed by Jesus’ blood) to have eternal life. In Revelation 22:19 (quoted above) , which is the very verse that warns against changing the text, Erasmus changed “tree of life” to “book of life.” This alteration still appears in the KJV and NKJV. These are the kind of textual alterations that critics should take notice of!”
• The use of the terms “Inferior” and Superior” manuscripts are technical terms and do not mean one text is poorly written and another text better written. They refer to time, condition and discovery location of the manuscripts, and harmony of textual style and content as compared to other manuscripts from different periods and locations.
Essential Guide to Bible Versions, P.W. Comfort, Ph.D. © 2000, Tyndale House Publishers, Inc,. pg 102.
Dr. Comfort is a noted expert and teacher of ancient Greek biblical manuscripts and literature. He has also authored The New Greek-English Interlinear New Testament, The Origin of the Bible, The Tyndale Bible Dictionary, Essential Guide to Bible Versions, and The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts (with D. Barrett),
-----------
Conclusion:
While I personally think that most of the arguments presented on this particular subject are misleading and contain serious flaws, the concern that there are some who would attempt to Judaise the New Covenant Faith, i.e. attempt to (re) establish salvation by works of the law, rather than by grace through faith, is still a valid concern which needs to be continuously monitored, just as it was during the formative years of the church. In addition, I have also expressed the following concern: Too many Christian preachers and teachers have divorced the Hebrew religion, culture, religion and language of the Jewish Apostles and transformed Christ's church into a non-Jewish, western cultural religion. In 2,000 years, nothing much has changed!
|
I would def be interested in studying with you as I study much from the Messianic perspective. I also think we must look at each book individually and the author. This holy protective order people give to the canon is very dangerous as also is destroying and ignoring what is truth do to personal convictions or dogma.
|
12-17-2008, 01:11 PM
|
|
A Student of the Word
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,132
|
|
Re: One additional pre-study note:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUKE2447
I would def be interested in studying with you as I study much from the Messianic perspective. I also think we must look at each book individually and the author. This holy protective order people give to the canon is very dangerous as also is destroying and ignoring what is truth do to personal convictions or dogma.
|
You are most welcome to join in.
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
|
12-17-2008, 01:12 PM
|
|
A Student of the Word
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,132
|
|
A Study in Mathew, Chapters Five through Seven
In chapter four of the Gospel of Mattityahu (Mathew), we have a short history of Yeshua (Jesus) from the time He underwent a tevilah (ceremonial immersion) by Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptizer) to the time when Jesus went into Galilee and ministered to the people there.
When the crowd grew large, consisting as it did of people from Galilee, Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judaea and from beyond the Jordan, Jesus, “… seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, …” Thus we have the introduction to the famous Sermon on the Mount.
----------------
There have been a great number of outstanding studies made on this sermon of Jesus Christ, so I will try not to duplicate those earlier (and better) works, but rather to place this famous teaching in a different perspective. How would a Jew, sitting on the side of a mountain might hear, understand, and respond the words being spoken by the living word of Elohim (God) [Note 1],
Starting with verse three, we have a number of statements that challenge one’s mind as well as their belief system. First, by noting that Jesus was addressing people who represented a cross section of the Jewish nation. These were not “Christians”, but observant Jews, including himself, who were all living under what was generally referred to as the Torah B’Moshe (Law of Moses). Yeshua had been teaching on the kingdom of heaven (See Mt. 4:17). But, it is not until this point in the narrative that we get an insight into what Jesus had been teaching in Mt 4. Here He puts it together for us.
The initial point upon which this sermon rests is found in Mt. 4:17, “Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Repentance is a theme that can be found throughout the entire Bible, so these first century believers already knew the precepts of law, sin, repentance, sacrificial atonements and their related precepts that many Christians today seem to be unaware of, except in the most general of terms.
The Torah (the first five books of the Bible, also called the Chumash or Pentateuch) contain the essentials of several covenants that God has made with man, starting with Adam and extending through the projected “New Covenant” (Brit Chadasha), as it would be established among the people of earth. One of the more interesting aspects of God’s covenants with men is that when He instituted a “new” covenant, the “old” covenant was not annulled, but incorporated into the new one. Each covenant was, in turn, made “better” (more complete, more detailed) through amendment and then incorporated into the provisions of the newer covenant. [Personal Research Project: The seven covenants: Edenic, Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, and the latest, “Messianic New Covenant”.]
HaMashiach Yeshua (The Christ, Jesus) never came into the world to destroy or abolish the Torah or any of the provisions contained in the first six covenants! He came to fulfill all of the provisions of all of the preceding covenants, so that the “final covenant” could be implemented: First to the Jews, then to the Gentiles, and finally back to the Jews. This new covenant was brought into being through the preaching of the Good News (The Gospel) concerning the Kingdom of Heaven/God, and then it was sealed with the required sacrifice of blood.
Before the giving of The Law, the Torah of Elohim was already in place and made known throughout the history of men, from Adam onward. Even Avraham, the “father of the faith” knew and kept God’s Law, as recorded in B’Resheet (Gen) 26:1-5
And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. And the LORD appeared unto him, and said: ‘Go not down unto Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of. Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore unto Abraham thy father; and I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these lands; and by thy seed shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves; because that Abraham hearkened to My voice [kole], and kept My charge [mish-meh'-reth], My commandments [mits-vaw'], My statutes [khook-kaw'], and My laws (instructions) [to-raw'].’ [JPS, 1917,] [See Note 2]
What we have is a wonderful example of salvation obtained by faith, as expressed through the works of faith (working out one’s salvation). Also, please see: Php 2:12, Jas 2:17, Heb 11:6 & Ro 14:23.
Even so, by faith Abraham obeyed God (faith with works) and it was accounted as righteousness to him.” From the first, each succeeding covenant that God has made with man revealed the Torah (Instructions), up to that time, then expended to make it more complete (perfect), i.e. to provide a more solid foundation and a framework within which to enhance our understanding of who and what God is, and for us to obtain a better grasp on what our relationship to and with God is to be. The eighth and final covenant (completion of human history and the start of the new world to come) will be consummated at the marriage supper of the Lamb ( Rev 19:5-9).
Which now brings us to the teaching of the deeper aspects of Torah and its application to the Brit Chadasha (New Covenant) by HaKole B’Mashiach (The Voice of Messiah), the living word of God. [See Note 3]; [Reference Yochanan (John) 1:1-4]
Shalom Aleichem
-----------------
Note 1: In the English language, Jews, both Messianic and Observant usually write the words, God and Lord, without the “o” vowel (G-d & L-rd), in order to ensure that they do not in advertently take the Lord’s name in vain. While I respect that writing convention and the esteem it gives to the commandment “do not take the Lord’s name in vain”, I do not feel required to follow that style of writing. Both the words “God” and ”Lord” are terms used as substitutes for the true name of God. However, as we all know, these words have a history of being used for very un-godlike utterances and no attempt to alter their spelling will alleviate that problem.
Note 2: For ease of posting, when appropriate to include passages or other references in their original languages, I will add those references as imbedded images in a word document and attached to the post. This will also make life a little easer for those who don’t have the same set of Hebrew, Greek, Arabic or Aramaic fonts that I use and wish to conduct their own text translations.
Note 3: As we launch into these scriptures, please keep in mind that Jesus is not teaching some new religion, i.e. a “westernized” Christianity that transitioned out of Roman paganism. Rather, Jesus is teaching Torah, the Old Testament Law, even including references from throughout the Tanakh (The Hebrew Bible, the Christian Bible’s Old Testament), plus elements from the oral law usually referred to as the Mishnah or Gemara, plus some elements of what would later become known as the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds. Many of these same themes would be later incorporated into the teachings of the Apostles. It is imperative to note that not everything that Jesus or His disciples taught are recorded in the pages of the New Testament (e.g., Joh 21:25)! Yet, at the same time, we need to recognize that there is not a single spiritual concept or principle found in the New Testament that does not have its root in the Old. So, if there is any “missing teaching” of Jesus or His disciples, then all we have to do is investigate the Tanakh to discover the foundation of what He or His disciples taught. Any so-called “found” copies of hidden or missing teachings of Christ, if not completely inline with the written word as we have it in the original languages, need to remain hidden and lost!
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
|
12-17-2008, 01:14 PM
|
|
A Student of the Word
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,132
|
|
Comment:
With the advent of Christmas and New Year celebrations and get-togethers with family, friends, and with other members of the body of Christ, I will give this study a couple of weeks rest. Not to mention that for then next segment I still need to finish up some study for myself. LOLOL
As I said earlier, this is a work in progress!
I will be posting these teaching segments on my web site first (HaShaliach.com), and will be using that as a review and edit venue before posting this work on other web sites and on-line communities. Where possible, I will also try to use HaShaliach.com as the central point for responding to comments and questions.
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 PM.
| |