We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Bro. Benincasa,

Do you fellowship with Teklemariam?

-Bro. Alex

No, just spent a week with him.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I'll take a Christmas offering.

That's because you celebrate the day.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by StMark

There's is NO scriptural prohibition against celebrating the birth of christ just as we celebrate the resurrection. Mass comes from the word "to celebrate". Are we all lost because of it??

Mark, where in the Bible did they created new Holy days to replace the Jewish festivals? Mark, there is no prohibition against counting beads when you pray. Yet the Bible says LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN.
Jesus made it real simple for you, and the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches are holding their stomachs while they roll on the floor with tears in their eyes laughing while you contend for their made up celebrations. Hey, do you keep Saint Anthony's Feast? Yummy bread!

Originally Posted by StMark

We don't just make 2 outreach efforts a year EB.those are just 2 of them.

Well, you made it sound like it was the best thing since back pockets.

Originally Posted by StMark

EB. can I send you a Christmas offering??

No.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, just spent a week with him.

Hmmm... interesting... I saw Brother Solomon over at Heritage in Brewer this year, he spoke on Friday night. It seems one supports one or the other, if they have anything to do with Ethiopia.

-Bro. Alex

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's not what you said Mark, you said the NEW BORN King. Every year He is shown as a baby in a manger, three kings (when we don't have any idea how many they were, and they weren't kings, but magicians). We are shown no where in the scripture where we are to make up a birth day (24th, 25th 26th take your pick of December) for the man Jesus Christ, and commemorate it. Also build traditions around it that were stolen from other religions.

The church was given authority to bind and loose on earth. We have absolute dominion. If the Church decides to overwrite a pagan custom to "Christianize" a culture, she has that authority. Also it's important to note that no serious scholar sees Christmas as Christ's "birthday". December 25 is merely a date chosen to remember Christ's birth. It was used as a tool to again, overwrite pagan customs and teaching, also was a tool to teach uneducated and illiterate masses the truth of Christ's incarnation. The cultural traditions were just bled over from traditional customs. Most were redefined in Christian terms.

Well, Mark, me boy, here is some more facts for you. Those "protastants" are part of a church split from the Roman Catholics, and with the Trinity, and baptism in titles, they also brought the December 25th borrowed from Sol Invictus, Mithra.

EB...the Protestants are just part of a line of revivals used of God to perfect the church and bring it back from doctrinal error. If it weren't for those dastardly Protestants...you wouldn't have a Bible to quote or most of the songs you sing in church. I see it like this, we Apostolics, are the final product of the Reformation. We're the restoration Christianity has been praying for for centuries. I'm a proud and solid Restorationist.

The above statement is a total contradiction. Your not bound to adhere to the way Catholics do thing? Let's see, the Catholics borrowed December 25th from the Mithra cult, and you obediently celebrate on the exact day. You also call the day by the same title the Catholics gave the day. You don't call it Christservice, Christ's birthday, you call it Christmas. Do you have Mid Week Mass? Sunday Morning Mass? Sunday Evening Mass? No yet once a year you have a December 25th Mass, just as the Roman Mother church taught the world.

EB what nights does your church meet for services?

1.3 billion Roman Catholics in the world. Mark, you don't want to compete, I take your place. I may or may not make a dent, but i'll die trying.

Then you've missed the point of the truth. This isn't your war. This is God's war. We're a Revival, we Apostolics are the Restoration of the Christian church Christianity has been praying for. But Satan has gotten the best of us by filling us with PRIDE over the truths we hold. With that pride we stand condemning the very church we're sent to minister to and restore.

Just like every other denomination on the planet does. We all do. The xmas, and the easter are the two red letter days that denominations try and pack the house. We don't work two days a year. We need to be pounding the pavement every day.

I agree that we need to be reaching out every day of the year. However, we do no harm capitalizing on our culture's acceptance of Christmas and Easter. Many souls have been saved as a result of these services. To denigrate the salvation of all of these souls isn't right. There are many people what wouldn't have ever set foot in a church any day of the year accept Christmas or Easter. Then on that one fateful Christmas or Easter service the Holy Ghost got a hold of them. I'd never condemn that.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yes, it sure beats preaching naked. I think you and I already went through the Frank Viola doctrine. By the way, Frank doesn't practice what he preaches. I asked him to show me where the apostles charged money for their writings. Guess what? I'm still waiting for the reply.



I wouldn't advocate placing one a building, the same way I wouldn't advocate the pine tree in a house.



Maybe you should ask Frank Viola to explain to you what exactly a pulpit is?
it's not a lectern, which is simply Latin for "place to read." If you would take the time you do a little research, you would find that churches really don't have pulpits, but lecterns. The true pulpits where at least 12 feet on the wall of a cathedral, and the monk, bishop, or priest climbed stairs to reach it. He then looked down on the congregation and preached. The reason that it was done that way is because they didn't have PA systems. Within the pulpit was a dome above the head of the speaker/preacher and it was a sounding board.
The speaker/preachers voice hit the sounding board and it help carry the sound out over the congregation. The height of the pulpit also aided the speaker/preacher to be heard by those who was preaching to. When Jesus had Peter row the boat out, so Jesus could speak to the crowd, it was a pulpit affect. By using the boat in that manner Jesus was using it as a platform, and the water as a lower sounding board that would carry Jesus' voice. Jesus also would of made use of hills where He could stand and address the people. Again a pulpit affect. Within the first century synagogues there were two lecterns, one to read the scroll, and the other to interpret the scroll and teach from. There was also a raised platform between them used for the different Rabbis to argue their points concerning what was preached or taught.



No, I'm not D.L. Moody. Nor, am I Frank Viola.



Yes, just as paul taught in 1st Corinthians chapter 9.
Does Frank Viola charge for his writings? Did Peter, Paul or James?



No, I don't use notes.



Wine.



Unleaven bread, also it wasn't communion, it was the passover meal.



What would be interesting, is if your list doesn't apply to you. That you know aall those items and don't practice them, yet you turn around and celebrate xmas? After viewing your list and seeing that you defend the Papal holy day, I would guess that you understand all those things are wrong, but you accept that Christianity that you currently practice is a Roman Catholic layover.



Again, is that through good research or just a skimmed reading of Mr. Violas printed merchandise?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

EB my point is that much of what we do on a regular basis can be condemned by the ultra fanatical.

Do you believe it is a sin to place a steeple on a building? I don't. Of course, I don't see a Christmas tree as a sin either.

Lastly, you use "wine". Fascinating. I thought you'd be the type to stand against any consumption of wine. I'm enjoying a half glass of Cabernet Sauvignon as I type this.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I promise you and EB that if you were to visit my home during this season I'd not decorate so as to not offend my weaker brothers. I wouldn't want y'all to fall into your irresistible pagan tendencies. lol

That is not what the scripture means. The weaker Brother was a new convert, and one from paganism. There are people in the world and in other religions and sects who know the truth about the Catholic holy day. Now, they see you who claim to be in the "truth" celebrating the xmas. They are offended. To those like me and Brother Alex who don't celebrate the Roman Catholic feast day, we could care less what you do with your time. We speak are mind, you make excuses. End of story. Yet the new convert, and those who are in the world who know and understand the truth about the xmas, are the ones who lose out, because of your want for liberty to do as you very well please. Your position is that they just need to get over it.
Paul's position is that if what he was eating (meat offered to idols) offended a Brother, he would eat no meat that was used in pagan worship. Simple.
I don't care what you do, (I presented my arguments, my part is done) just as long as you don't pawn it off on my family or I.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Just a friendly joke. You know I love y'all.

Appreciated, seriously.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Does your church have a steeple?

It's not Freemason.


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

P.S.
Not that anyone here would lie, but I know for a fact I've talked to some Christians on several forums and a number have lied about their churches not having steeples.

How old are you?

Originally Posted by Aquila

lol Sadly, lying is a sin...

So is being presumptuous.

Originally Posted by Aquila

seasonal decorations and steeples aren't. Yet they'd lie on a forum to keep from looking glaringly inconsistent. C'mon folks. Be honest. Does your church have a steeple? If so... y'all have something with a FAR WORSE pagan connotation on your very church building. That's got to be more serious than a brother having a silly Christmas tree in their living room or a wreath on their door.

Not meaning to be offensive...just keepin' it real folks.

Please go over the above paragraph again. You contradicting yourself.
Stop trying to defend the undefendable.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Aquila's list of things I find to be a bit ridiculous on a few points. Pagans didn't debate over the use of wine or grape juice for communion, and for the record, my assembly uses communion, and I'm fine with it, it's just a symbol anyways... but then again, I believe in open communion, so a ton of people think I'm heretical for that, I don't see communion as a "sacrament" as many conservative apostolics do...

Also, as for sermons, I don't see the pagan origin...

Lastly, although in our meetinghouse, there is no pulpit, the elder uses a simple black music stand... would that be too pagan?

A bit ridiculous...

-Bro. Alex

The Lord's Supper was a very special event. The Last Supper was a Passover Seder. Early Christians observed the Lord's Supper as a full meal centered around a single loaf of bread (the body torn apart for each participant) and a single cup of wine poured out for all (the blood poured out for all). It was done to remember the body broken and the blood shed for our salvation...in addition it was to look forward to the day in which we will partake in the Marriage Supper with Christ Jesus our Lord in Heaven (trying to avoid a Premillennial vs. Preterism debate here lol). If a church uses grape juice it's using an alien element, not wine. Wine is living and breathes. Grape juice isn't. Wine is full of life giving properties, grape juice isn't so much so. The fellowship and symbolism of the actual Lord's Supper is so much greater than the Catholic Communion most Christians celebrate. If a church uses grape juice and a wafer...they aren't observing the Lord's Supper.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You see this is where you all aren't getting it.

The xmas is a NON ISSUE.

There is no where in the Bible that my family or the rest of the planet are admonished to acknowledge the made up date, or the made up holiday.

I love this time of year, I get to see the same people who pound the drum against standards fight like gladiators to defend a Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox holiday.

As for me and my house, we have nothing to do with this holiday.

What you do with you and yours is on your head. Just don't try to pass it off to my children.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I can respect that EB. On the other side, don't condemn your brothers and sisters who choose to share in the seasonal traditions.