It was and is a sign of the covenant that God has with the individual. Just as circumcision came about because it was of the covenant Abraham had with God by faith, so is baptism now for us.
That's right. Abraham had faith before the circumcision like I had faith before my baptism. I was baptized because of my faith. If you received you faith because of baptism then something was wrong.
That said, if Abraham refused to be circumcised what would of been the outcome? What would happen if Abraham wouldn't of taught and passed on the knowledge of being circumcised? Wouldn't the covenant be broken by man?
Please don't encourage others to not receive God's new covenant.
The circumcision of Abraham is most certainly comparable to baptism. This brings another note to light. Faith without works is dead.
Saving Faith will work. He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved. It is a work of FAITH. The works that do not save are works of law in attempts to become righteous. But SAVING faith -- for nothing saves us except our faith -- will work, which requires us to conclude that if baptism is absent (if one HAS BEEN TAUGHT baptism), then saving faith is absent. the works from SAVING FAITH are not at all in the category of salvation without "works".
Like a dead body, you do not expect it to DO anything. Well, dead faith does not have works that follow. Only LIVING and ACTUAL faith will work.
Why did God grant Abraham righteousness? It was because ABRAHAM BELIEVED. Now, God knows if that faith is real or not. He does not need to see any works to know whether or not Abraham had saving faith. God obviously knows the difference by simply discerning the heart. Had Abraham not submitted to circumcision, he obviously would not have possessed actual faith, and God would never have deemed him righteous! Genuine FAITH WILL WORK. Works TELL US a person has genuine faith. They do not tell God. That is why James said he would show us his faith BY HIS WORKS.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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On a side note, I could not find that article but basically DS makes a distinction between the forgiveness of sins received at repentance and the Spiritual work of circumcision at baptism of the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh if I remember correctly.
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Doesn't circumcision (baptism) happen after birth (regeneration)?
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
But, what if a soul cannot be baptized for physical reasons?
Bro Price, I speak carefully and respectfully, because I know a little bit about you from your past conversations on this forum. But anyone who is willing to be baptised, God can and will look after them physically.
I know of people who were baptised in bathtubs in their hospitals.
If I was going to pass away, without divine intervention... it wouldn't matter to me if being baptised was considered unsafe for my body... the flesh isn't going to be around for long.
This is my answer to your question.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
That's right. Abraham had faith before the circumcision like I had faith before my baptism. I was baptized because of my faith. If you received you faith because of baptism then something was wrong.
That said, if Abraham refused to be circumcised what would of been the outcome? What would happen if Abraham wouldn't of taught and passed on the knowledge of being circumcised? Wouldn't the covenant be broken by man?
Please don't encourage others to not receive God's new covenant.
Not just that, if Abraham had not obeyed and left his old nation and gods....if Abraham had not obeyed and offered Isaac
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Bro Price, I speak carefully and respectfully, because I know a little bit about you from your past conversations on this forum. But anyone who is willing to be baptised, God can and will look after them physically.
I know of people who were baptised in bathtubs in their hospitals.
If I was going to pass away, without divine intervention... it wouldn't matter to me if being baptised was considered unsafe for my body... the flesh isn't going to be around for long.
This is my answer to your question.
So, God's grace is not sufficient then? We must be baptized? We must have a work of man to be saved? Sorry, but this does not align with the scriptures.
God is not unrighteous. If a repentant soul was supposed to be baptized, but physically could not, then God would ........ that soul to Hell? Sorry, but I disagree with this assertion.
That's right. Abraham had faith before the circumcision like I had faith before my baptism. I was baptized because of my faith. If you received you faith because of baptism then something was wrong.
That said, if Abraham refused to be circumcised what would of been the outcome? What would happen if Abraham wouldn't of taught and passed on the knowledge of being circumcised? Wouldn't the covenant be broken by man?
Please don't encourage others to not receive God's new covenant.
I encourage souls to be baptized in Jesus name. I do not believe and will not believe it is essential to salvation. To do so would negate God alone as Savior.
I encourage souls to be baptized in Jesus name. I do not believe and will not believe it is essential to salvation. To do so would negate God alone as Savior.
Wow, BP, you've swung quite a ways over to the other side!
Just curious, what do you make of this scripture:
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
So, God's grace is not sufficient then? We must be baptized? We must have a work of man to be saved? Sorry, but this does not align with the scriptures.
God is not unrighteous. If a repentant soul was supposed to be baptized, but physically could not, then God would ........ that soul to Hell? Sorry, but I disagree with this assertion.
You asked. I don't know anyone who has the mental reasoning to repent and recieve the Holy Ghost who could not be baptised in obedience.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
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