List of grace giving churches.

[Rudy]

Well I must say from reading these recent postings it's time for change. We can talk about it for another 15 -30 years or get the process going. The forever hammering for more money seems to be the message of the day. It's not going to stop either.

What happened to letting the Holy Ghost be at the helm in the gathering of Saints? It seems it's all about money and programs.

Brothers and sisters I'm fighting an illness but I hope to see Pentecost restored before I leave this world. As one old timer said," it used to be about prayer and fasting, now it's about money."

I'm not out to judge the pro-tithers but I will speak against how it is taught. I confess that over the years my approach may not have been wholesome and I apologize for that.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The 'house of God' is not a building. No building made with hands is God's 'house'. The house of God is the church, and that is the PEOPLE OF GOD, as the Scripture says:

OK, now does your church meet outside in the streets, in the park or by the beach?
Just where does your church meet at?
If you meet under a tree I understand that you do not need to spend any money on it. (Actually I know of a church in India which has services under a big tree)

Do you not meet at a building or at least inside a house?
then someone needs to pay money for that place and whatever services that place provides.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Brothers and sisters I'm fighting an illness but I hope to see Pentecost restored before I leave this world. As one old timer said," it used to be about prayer and fasting, now it's about money."

I has been about money from the times of the Old Testament
Money was given to the Temple everyone had to give the Shekel.

In the New Testament people sold their properties and gave the money to the Apostles.

There has always been money involved in the church. That is why we have a bunch of false prophets going around preaching the prosperity gospel.

Those false prophets are stealing the money that rightfully belong to the real preachers of the Apostolic Gospel.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I has been about money from the times of the Old Testament
Money was given to the Temple everyone had to give the Shekel.

In the New Testament people sold their properties and gave the money to the Apostles.

There has always been money involved in the church. That is why we have a bunch of false prophets going around preaching the prosperity gospel.

Those false prophets are stealing the money that rightfully belong to the real preachers of the Apostolic Gospel.

FZ no one is against giving.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I has been about money from the times of the Old Testament
Money was given to the Temple everyone had to give the Shekel.

In the New Testament people sold their properties and gave the money to the Apostles.

There has always been money involved in the church. That is why we have a bunch of false prophets going around preaching the prosperity gospel.

Those false prophets are stealing the money that rightfully belong to the real preachers of the Apostolic Gospel.

Interestingly enough, God says in Jeremiah 23 that it was the false prophets who stole, not by money, but stole His Words from the people. They stole HisWords because they preached on peace, properity, blessing, and their own dreams and visions, rather than preaching repentance.

There's no scripture to back up your assertion that false prophets are stealing money that "rightfully belongs to the real preachers." Preachers have no such entitlement. We are called to be servants, not to be served. We are called to build His kingdom, not our own.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Well said Jason. I wouldn't leave over tithing alone or a couple standards. I don't think it a big enough disagreement to warrant uprooting and moving. I have been in my church for 19 years. I've been involved in work or ministry there for some 16 of those years.

Ultimately, I would leave over the overall direction of my church. It's not simply that eithing. It is the fact that every single service (I wish I was exaggerating) my Pastor makes sure to tell us we need to give more and pay our tithes. Even when it has NOTHING to do with his text or topic, he finds a wayo to drop it in there. And this in a church where it has been said multiple times that over 90% of the church are active regular givers. This on top of the fact that every week there is some new project he wants us to give to. 40 grand for this, a couple thousand for that. ON and on it goes all the time. A lot of us are sick of the constant give more money drumbeat, but it's like he is tone deaf to the people.

Now, if we were giving in order to fund a food pantry, or to provide clothes, or help with th esalvation army or local healthcare for the needy. If we were being asked to give in order to help shut ins, widows, seniors with no one else to care, etc...that would be no problem. At least that is BIBLICAL. But here it is all about building up our building and then renovating and next year...starting to build on to the building. We built a gymnasium. We built a youth chapel. His view is the "house of god should be the nicest building in town". The church building IS NOT the house of God, WE ARE the temple now! We have no outreach program. Rarely is outreach preached or promoted. We do very little at all for the community besides have a church...and yet somehow that is perfectly fine. Let's spend untold thousands on a building while people are starving around us. I can't find where that agrees with the message of Christ.

I'm ONeness to the core. I am a "3 stepper", but those 3 steps are only accessable to us b/c of the blood of the lamb. I believe in justification by faith the same way James and Paul did: show me your faith by your good works. If you don't do good works, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. If you are justified, then you'll do good works. Faith is more than mental ascent. I preach the initial evidence of tongues. I believe in the gifts of the spirit. I really do find myself agreeing with most of the Apostolic doctrines. Honestly, I find myself pretty conservative...except on this forum by comparison. LOL.

I want my kids to know church shouldn't be a constant barrage of give give give give just to see a stupid building built up. I don't want them to feel like they aren't good Christians because they choose to not toss every spare dollar they have into some offering at church. That they aren't lost and onthe way to hell for not tithing. But they will grow up and hear that nonsense every flippin week here and it drives me nuts.

I have considered for a while now starting a work in a small village/town about 10 minutes outside our town. There has never been an Apostolic church there. I don't like the "everyone come to this one church mentality". I think the kingdom is better served if people go OUT and have smaller, more intimate and connected (family like) churches. So i would love to get somethign started there as home bible study/prayer meetings and see where it goes. Somewhere we can preach the Apostolic doctrine without tithing and some of the clothesline stuff, but also stress being far more active in the community and giving to the poor and needy. Francis Chan has been kicking my tail with convictiopn over how much he and his church give away to the poor and such, not only here but in foreign countries.

I think we are missing the mark in a lot of ways, but you can't do much about it. I thought I could change the church from within by just working and trying to talk about these things and pray for change. It won't happen when the Pastor won't even give thought to it. So now I am looking for direction elsewhere. I love the church and the Pastor. I'm just not happy there. Not challenged there. Not getting educated there. Not inspired there anymore. I need more than what my Pastor offers, and I don't think he ever will. My wife would be perfectly happy staying there forever, but for me...if I stay I may lose my mind in time. So I need to either find direction elsewhere, or I need God to change my mind and give me some peace about this place.

Interesting post. If you are getting close to losing your mind you may want to talk to your wife about this. You will need her to be on board if you start a work. I'm sure you know that. Get a website so donations can start flowing in. Where are you located at if I may ask?

[Rudy]

The official position of the Catholic church on tithing money.

Catholics are under no obligation to tithe a certain percentage of their income to the Church. The Church does require the following:

• The fifth precept ("You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church") means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability. . . The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his own abilities. (CCC 2043)
• The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for apostolic works and works of charity, and for the decent sustenance of ministers. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources. (CIC 222)

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Get a website so donations can start flowing in.

WWJD?

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Esaias

WWJD?

Be prepared to help/serve the needy IMO.

[Rudy]

AOG declares Tithing is not a salvation issue.

The Assemblies of God has always been a proponent of tithing (or giving one-tenth of one’s personal income to support the work of God). We believe tithing is a recognition that everything we have comes from God. The practice checks our greed, promotes personal discipline and thrift, testifies to our faith, promotes God’s work in the world, and alleviates human need. While we do not believe tithing to be a condition for salvation, we do believe it is a very important biblical model, one which should set the minimal standard for Christian giving for people in all income ranges.