God's Grace, Love or Mercy will not SAVE you ...

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God's grace is involved in every step of the way from leading us to repentance to our glorification. I'm not a Calvinist but I do believe that no one can come to Christ except the Father draw him. Therefore God makes the first move in our salvation, not only because He became man and died for our sins but He also because of his goodness and grace draws every man to himself.

You can read again what Dan quoted LS as saying below in quote box.

You simply cannot take the love and mercy of God out of the salvation equation.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I hope no one is saying you can take love, mercy, and grace away from salvation. I think we are saying neither can you take out obedience. It all has a part.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I hope no one is saying you can take love, mercy, and grace away from salvation. I think we are saying neither can you take out obedience. It all has a part.

Unless Dan took LS totally out of context, then LS is eliminating the grace of God which brings salvation. Tit 2:11

The grace and love of God is effective every step of the way from the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ to the time we hear the gospel and believe, repent, baptized in water and the Spirit, in perseverance until the end, and glorification.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by DAII

only obedience to THE doctrine will.

Using Acts 5 as his sermon text at a church in Visalia, CA, Lee Stoneking, asserts that God's love, grace and mercy follows ... or come running ... after our obedience to THE doctrine.

http://podcastgen.pentecostallightho...conference.mp3


The first 5-10 minutes might be the most scariest judaizing I've heard in A LONG, LONG TIME.

This theological difference alone is why this movement is so far from the Gospel.

Dan

To be clear, the Love and Mercy of God was wrapped in the free gift of his Son Jesus, but when the Apostles evangelized they never started with articulating those themes.

A sample of Apostolic Preaching from Acts 3

17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,[a] 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Much of the focus on the Mercy and Grace of God was much more expounded to those who already responded to the Good news by repenting.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

you need some scripture and answer/respond to the scriptures presented that I pointed you to. Do you believe in hell at all? We are all God's children by definition. If my child was wicked... would I hate it? Yes but in the end God is HOLY and HE IS JUST. How about that God killing Ananias and his wife? How about God killing children of pagan nations. Will God send his children who have denied him for a love of the world? YES HE WILL! The Prodigal Son was DEAD TO HIS FATHER! Ever read Jesus teachings instead some of some Dr. Love baptist junk? God's love is awesome but he is not just love. Obviously you don't read them to often or this ALL LOVE ALL THE TIME LOVE AFFAIR you belive God is would cease to exist. How about pick up the Bible and read about his Covenant people in the OT and his judgment against those who simply took a few things they where not suppsed to. How about parables of about the seed and falling away. Quit making God some image that is not real.

Respond to the scipture instead of some emotional RANT of ignorance that is quite insane.

1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Again, you avoid the facts. Fact after fact, and yet you claim to love the Truth. Very sad.

I've given you much to consider regarding what has acutally happend in history and you avoid everything. God forbid you ever wind up in some kind of ministry.

It's obvious you lack experience. Don't worry, time will reveal many things.

The Bible in your hands is a dangerous tool, deeming those who disagree with you as filthy sinners, who will burn.

I know your kind. I sat under a man who boiled with severe demand to obey him as the man of God. When he fell into adultery and the church scattered in confusion, the pain felt by these people is still felt today over 30 years later.

You need a sincere visit to I Corinthians 13. Love is absent from your desire to please God, which deems all of your advice as null and void.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God's grace is involved in every step of the way from leading us to repentance to our glorification. I'm not a Calvinist but I do believe that no one can come to Christ except the Father draw him. Therefore God makes the first move in our salvation, not only because He became man and died for our sins but He also because of his goodness and grace draws every man to himself.

You can read again what Dan quoted LS as saying below in quote box.

You simply cannot take the love and mercy of God out of the salvation equation.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I'm not arguing that grace isn't involved throughout a persons life.. But there is a difference between a general peovisional grace that God grants to all mankind, and grace that brings salvation. The drawing of God does just that, it draws, but the drawing doesn't save unless the individual chooses to yield to that drawing in complete submission. The grace of God alone provided the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. While the blood has the ability to save every human that has ever existed, it can only save those who willingly and fully submit to the gospel. Saving grace is only availalbe through faith. While the love of God has provided a means of salvation, the love of God alone does not and cannot save. By Grace THROUGH FAITH. The Grace part is God's responsibility... The FAITH part is ours.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Unless Dan took LS totally out of context, then LS is eliminating the grace of God which brings salvation. Tit 2:11

The grace and love of God is effective every step of the way from the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ to the time we hear the gospel and believe, repent, baptized in water and the Spirit, in perseverance until the end, and glorification.

I think you're on the right track here sister....

No one is saying "grace and love of God" is not evident every step of the way... However, without obedience, grace and alone cannot and will not take you every step of the way. Grace provides "every step of tye way", and it's our individual responsibility to responsd by submitting to those steps in obedience, and taking those steps ourselves in response.

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Again, you avoid the facts. Fact after fact, and yet you claim to love the Truth. Very sad.

I've given you much to consider regarding what has acutally happend in history and you avoid everything. God forbid you ever wind up in some kind of ministry.

It's obvious you lack experience. Don't worry, time will reveal many things.

The Bible in your hands is a dangerous tool, deeming those who disagree with you as filthy sinners, who will burn.

I know your kind. I sat under a man who boiled with severe demand to obey him as the man of God. When he fell into adultery and the church scattered in confusion, the pain felt by these people is still felt today over 30 years later.

You need a sincere visit to I Corinthians 13. Love is absent from your desire to please God, which deems all of your advice as null and void.

Love is great and should be showed to all. What you are pushing is sloppy, stupid, enabling love though. Liek the parent who continues to enable the lazy non-working kid by paying their bills. Or the spouse who enables the drug addict spouse. You promote a sickening version of "love" and grace whereby we never say enough is enough and demand change from the child.

I have an older brother who my mother loved dearly. However, when he becamse increasingly involved in drugs and being an abusive husband to his wife, my mother cut him off almost completely. She loved him, but would not tolerate his lifestyle as long as he refused to change. When he began to straighten his life out, she opened the door to him.

Even with the prodigal it required a turn around. The father didn't go to the city to look for the kid. He waited for the kid to make his way home.

God is not only love. He is also jealousy and a consuming fire. He is called terrible at times. He shows his wratha nd anger towards those who disobey and mock Him.

You leave out many facets of what and who God is in order to maintain your emotional based view of how lovy dovy and wimpy God must be to fit your soft theology on sin.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Again, you avoid the facts. Fact after fact, and yet you claim to love the Truth. Very sad.

I've given you much to consider regarding what has acutally happend in history and you avoid everything. God forbid you ever wind up in some kind of ministry.

It's obvious you lack experience. Don't worry, time will reveal many things.

The Bible in your hands is a dangerous tool, deeming those who disagree with you as filthy sinners, who will burn.

I know your kind. I sat under a man who boiled with severe demand to obey him as the man of God. When he fell into adultery and the church scattered in confusion, the pain felt by these people is still felt today over 30 years later.

You need a sincere visit to I Corinthians 13. Love is absent from your desire to please God, which deems all of your advice as null and void.

FACTS? ROFL you have done nothing to present SCRIPTURE. You have totaly ignored and refused to answer questions. I answered what you asked. You are just throwing out a bunch of emotional stuff without LISTENING TO THE WORD. Then what do you do point to a love chapter that has little to do with God's judgment. Congrats you fall into the category of I don't know scripture and I will be selective in what I read so I don't have to deal with it Christian.

I lack experience? LOL! You base that on what? You show your continued line of throwing stuff out and seeing if it sticks. What does your former pastors failure have to do with truth? Sheesh Truth is truth no matter our failure. DEAL WITH SCRIPTURE!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Dan

To be clear, the Love and Mercy of God was wrapped in the free gift of his Son Jesus, but when the Apostles evangelized they never started with articulating those themes.

A sample of Apostolic Preaching from Acts 3

17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,[a] 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Much of the focus on the Mercy and Grace of God was much more expounded to those who already responded to the Good news by repenting.

Excellent job of rightly dividing the word of truth!

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Love is great and should be showed to all. What you are pushing is sloppy, stupid, enabling love though. Liek the parent who continues to enable the lazy non-working kid by paying their bills. Or the spouse who enables the drug addict spouse. You promote a sickening version of "love" and grace whereby we never say enough is enough and demand change from the child.

I have an older brother who my mother loved dearly. However, when he becamse increasingly involved in drugs and being an abusive husband to his wife, my mother cut him off almost completely. She loved him, but would not tolerate his lifestyle as long as he refused to change. When he began to straighten his life out, she opened the door to him.

Even with the prodigal it required a turn around. The father didn't go to the city to look for the kid. He waited for the kid to make his way home.

God is not only love. He is also jealousy and a consuming fire. He is called terrible at times. He shows his wratha nd anger towards those who disobey and mock Him.

You leave out many facets of what and who God is in order to maintain your emotional based view of how lovy dovy and wimpy God must be to fit your soft theology on sin.

As NFS puts hands over the eyes and goes nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope.... Then declares God ony a fraction of what he is. Let NFS take the hippie, new age version of God and keep it. NFS will find out the truth hopefully from the Bible vs the day of judgment. Obviously NFS is most likely a Universalist or a OSAS. I am thinking that NFS is toward the Uni myself.