Does Dan Seagraves Believe in the LIght Doctrine????

[tv1a]

Let me rephrase the statement. GLU gives apostolics the opportunity to get a real education in a christian environment. The concept is like Jerry Falwell's school... It is a considered a Bible college although it has the elements of a liberal arts college...tv

Originally Posted by CC1

I didn't realize that it was GLU's desire to be the premier Bible College. I thought their emphasis was being the first Oneness Apostolic based Liberal Arts University.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Let me rephrase the statement. GLU gives apostolics the opportunity to get a real education in a christian environment. The concept is like Jerry Falwell's school... It is a considered a Bible college although it has the elements of a liberal arts college...tv

Any idea what GLU enrollment is?

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by Thad

I have high respect for Bro Seagraves and If this Question offends anyone I am hoping and asking that the thread be deleted " If it offends your Brother".......
anyhow, I know that he use to have a site where people could ask him Bible Questions and there was some commotion about the fact that he eluded to what would be considered the Old " light doctrine".

Is it wrong to believe in the light doctrine? can you be considered a 3 stepper and believe in it ?
what exactly is it ? If my memory serves me right tonight, I thought it was where only those Baptized in Jesus Name will make it in the rapture? all others will stay through the wrath of God in the tribulation and then be the servant of those who were bapt. In JN ?
All these people will be those who walked in all they knew and were not given deeper revelation by God.

what scriptures do they use for this Doctrine? I'd be interested in reading up on it - thanks

Thad, there are several in the UPC who hold to some form of this doctrine. It is also called Inclusivism too. I hold to a modified view of the latter actually and would agree with Norris and Haywood for the most part. I think this issue, alone, is one that can divide or unite the most strange of bedfellows rather quickly though. I will be careful.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Let me rephrase the statement. GLU gives apostolics the opportunity to get a real education in a christian environment. The concept is like Jerry Falwell's school... It is a considered a Bible college although it has the elements of a liberal arts college...tv

Liberty University is huge, visited there with my daugther 3-4yrs. ago, she decided it was too far from Texas, now is a senior at Hardin-Simmons in Abilene.

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Let me rephrase the statement. GLU gives apostolics the opportunity to get a real education in a christian environment. The concept is like Jerry Falwell's school... It is a considered a Bible college although it has the elements of a liberal arts college...tv

I have attended Liberty University for about two years now. It is a great school. I hope to see UGST flourish, it can be a great platform of witness for our Oneness scholars.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Sabellius

Thad, there are several in the UPC who hold to some form of this doctrine. It is also called Inclusivism too. I hold to a modified view of the latter actually and would agree with Norris and Haywood for the most part. I think this issue, alone, is one that can divide or unite the most strange of bedfellows rather quickly though. I will be careful.

So then .... does this mean Sab that you believe it's possible there will be those raptured who have not spoken in tongues or been baptized in Jesus name?

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by Felicity

So then .... does this mean Sab that you believe it's possible there will be those raptured who have not spoken in tongues or been baptized in Jesus name?

Oh do I bite the bait or no? Hmmmm...I'll put up a little fight. My answer lies in this text below.

"For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (13) (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; (14) for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, (15) who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them ) (16) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. (Romans 2:12-16 NKJV)

[Brother Price]

Sabellius, so you believe that one can be raptured or go to Heaven if they live in the light they have without Acts 2:38 then? If so, then we have a major, major disagreement on this one. All these denominations and churches have a Bible, and the members read said Bible. The plan of salvation is in the Bible, clear as can be. If any soul is not saved the Bible way, they shall die in their sins. Not saved according to the light of truth they have, but one must be saved by grace through faith according to Acts 2:38.

One of the things which was of greatest concern to me after conversion to the Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal faith (after 48 yrs of association with the Church of Christ), was centered upon the fate of my beloved parents who had gone to their graves following a lifetime of embracing the teachings of the CofC. I met, and became a very close friend of an elderly retired UPCI pastor, & after expressing my concerns about this to him, he sought to assure me that my parents would not suffer loss, equating members of the OAP to the priests of old who administered within the confines of the tabernacle, and all other religions likened unto the Israelites who were outside of the outer walls of the tabernacle. I perceived his remarks as saying that as long as people believed in God & were members of some type of "Christian" church, they were saved. For a long while this bothered me, for I viewed it as a direct contradiction of Paul's words to the saints at Galatia: "But though we (referring to himself & the other apostles), or (even) an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which WE (the apostles) have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:8) (added emphasis mine own)

I was also troubled with his explanation for I viewed it conflicting with these words spoken by our Lord, when asked the question - Lord, are there few that be saved? His response - "Strive to enter in at the strait gate; for MANY, I say unto you WILL SEEK TO ENTER in, and SHALL NOT be able. Would someone please correct me if my understanding is amiss, but was Jesus not explicitly asserting that even though there would be MANY who would SEEK to enter in the eternal kingdom of God, nevertheless there would be ONLY a FEW which would be granted entrance? If this be true, then what would be the ultimate determining factor? In seeking a scripturally sound response to this important question I believe one must look to the statements our Lord made to Nicodemus: "Except a man is BORN AGAIN of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)

Only recently (& long after the death of my elder pastor friend), did I discover WHY he believed the way he did about this matter. His beliefs, I learned, was of the "old school," not unlike those embraced by such men as Haywood, A. Urshan, and others, and, if what I have gleaned from the things being posted here, are also embraced, to some degree, by Bro. Segraves of CLC.

There is more that I would like to write on this matter, and hope to do so shortly.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by PaPaDon

One of the things which was of greatest concern to me after conversion to the Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal faith (after 48 yrs of association with the Church of Christ), was centered upon the fate of my beloved parents who had gone to their graves following a lifetime of embracing the teachings of the CofC. I met, and became a very close friend of an elderly retired UPCI pastor, & after expressing my concerns about this to him, he sought to assure me that my parents would not suffer loss, equating members of the OAP to the priests of old who administered within the confines of the tabernacle, and all other religions likened unto the Israelites who were outside of the outer walls of the tabernacle. I perceived his remarks as saying that as long as people believed in God & were members of some type of "Christian" church, they were saved. For a long while this bothered me, for I viewed it as a direct contradiction of Paul's words to the saints at Galatia: "But though we (referring to himself & the other apostles), or (even) an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which WE (the apostles) have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:8) (added emphasis mine own)

I was also troubled with his explanation for I viewed it conflicting with these words spoken by our Lord, when asked the question - Lord, are there few that be saved? His response - "Strive to enter in at the strait gate; for MANY, I say unto you WILL SEEK TO ENTER in, and SHALL NOT be able. Would someone please correct me if my understanding is amiss, but was Jesus not explicitly asserting that even though there would be MANY who would SEEK to enter in the eternal kingdom of God, nevertheless there would be ONLY a FEW which would be granted entrance? If this be true, then what would be the ultimate determining factor? In seeking a scripturally sound response to this important question I believe one must look to the statements our Lord made to Nicodemus: "Except a man is BORN AGAIN of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)

Only recently (& long after the death of my elder pastor friend), did I discover WHY he believed the way he did about this matter. His beliefs, I learned, was of the "old school," not unlike those embraced by such men as Haywood, A. Urshan, and others, and, if what I have gleaned from the things being posted here, are also embraced, to some degree, by Bro. Segraves of CLC.

There is more that I would like to write on this matter, and hope to do so shortly.

PaPaDon,

Thank-you for this post. My father was brought up Catholic and my mother raised us Apostolic. Mom preached to Dad all the time and he knew the plan of salvation. When his father [my grandfather] died, my father began a drinking spree that lasted for several years and caused our family much hardship. The root of the problem was that, according to Apostolic teaching, his father was sitting in hell...and he knew nothing of the Apostolic faith but lived by the Catholic traditions he was brought up in.

My father sought the Holy Ghost [evidence of speaking in other tongues] several times, mainly under the preaching of Bro. Billie Cole. He was baptized in Jesus name. He never spoke in tongues. The Holy Ghost is promised to those who are baptised in Jesus name according to our doctrine: Acts 2:38. I choose to think that had my Dad lived longer, not been so sick, that he would have continued to seek and finally would have spoke in tongues. I choose to believe that Dad did all he knew to do and I believe that I will see him again in heaven. If that is the Light Doctrine...then I believe in it also.

Blessings, Rhoni