Lee Stoneking Addresses UN

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Epley you aren't qualified for this discussion and probably need to go back to something you are better suited for, such as fine-tuning the "shirt sleeve doctrine of salvation".

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

So you say PAUL WAS INEPT? You dent the teachings of Paul? I quoted Jesus, too! But you never responded to the words I quoted as you don't respond to Paul's. And you say YOU AGREE with the Bible? Thanks for confessing you disagree with the Bible.

Paul said this as well:

1Co 14:37 KJV If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Do you deny that?

No one's upset. And you left out context in the teachings where righteousness for salvation is given freely without good deeds by faith in the work of the cross. I said it again and again why you miss context. Are you not reading?

Look at Jesus' words:

Joh 6:28-29 KJV Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Do you believe God SENT HIS "SON" and that Jesus is "God's SON" and He sent Him to die and resurrect?

You are not reading. I am asking you guys to show me what these verses ARE saying, and you never seem to do that. I am asking. Show me where I am wrong and why and how from the verses I am quoting. Anyone can SAY a person is wrong about the verse and it's THEIR PERSONAL interpretation of it, but never say what it is ACTUALLY saying.

I challenge you to say what those verses ARE saying, something you and Shazeep are repeatedly avoiding to do.

So, ,you disagree with the parts of the Bible. You say the epistles CONTRADICT what Jesus taught.

Joh 6:28-29 KJV Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

What about those verses above?



I answered them. I told you good works are needful in their proper place, which place I showed you was AFTER one is saved by Christ's work of the cross. Now I showed you what Jesus said THAT is exactly what Paul agreed with in the verses I quoted.



If you believe Jesus' words, did you drink deadly poison to prove you are a true follower of His words? Show me the video. You took that out of context, .... .again.

It's like Paul taking up a serpent and it biting but not killing him in Acts. So, by the way YOU handle those statements of Jesus, show me you're a follower.

You are not "saved" until you pass the test as judgment. This is a fallacy of (current) christian teaching. Turning "All Men" into "everyone but us".

I have always said that the bible has been corrupted and have provided columns of examples of this.

You ask me about Paul? Just on the issue of Paul's conversion there are three versions, the three versions are contradictory. The crucifixion stories are contradictory. The resurrection stories are contradictory. The entire book has to be taken as one message, what is attributed to God has to be set aside and carefully compared to what one is taught to do and be, and the contradictions weeded out. With that said, wsme of what Paul taught is valid and matches the rest of it, and some is not.

You seem upset that I do not agree with the teachings of Paul yet you summarily dismiss Paul's direction for ladies to keep silent in church and dismiss Paul's direction for ladies to cover their hair (neither of which we dismiss, albeit from our own book) and worse the church criticizes it when Muslims do it, as if it isn't written down in the new testament for you to also do it. In this you dent the teachings of Paul in your own ministry. Since you take yourselves to be under these teachings and claim that you must follow them for salvation and do not follow them is it not a bit hypocritical to capitalize your OMG UTTER SHOCK when e-speaking to me about it? Don't answer, I withdraw the question.

Your implication that a quiet note (several) to follow Jesus' actions and directions is interpreted as not believing and incorporating what Jesus taught into our religious practices is contradictory in itself. How in the world can you twist "exactly follow Jesus' actions and teachings" into such an accusation?

The first pillar of Islam is belief in One God, not shared, no room for another, no compromise. That statement traces all the way back to "Hear Oh Israel". Implicit in this is that no good works one can do can save anyone because it is required that all good works are done in serving Him, all results of those works attributed to Him. God has always required men to serve Him and attribute everything to Him, not to themselves or to each other. Minus this, I agree with you that deeds are not, in themselves, enough.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Seriously...take care of ISIS, BOKO Haram and the other Islamic trash before trying to take care of what is in our backyard

I have never been to Africa, or to Syria and have nothing to do with either of the above.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No where does it say do exactly anything.

And if so, what about you? Jesus wore sandals, do you? Jesus prayed "Our Father"....do you?

Jesus called Himself the Son, do you?

He called God (Allah), "Father"..do you?

Jesus died on a cross, do you?

Jesus drank wine, do you?

In fact Jesus COULD not mean do everything exactly as he did. Much of the Law was specifically for Israel as part of the covenant, but Jesus specifically inaugurated a New Covenant and left much of the details up to His Apostles

Jesus called himself "Son of Man" how many times in Matt alone? 27, 28?

Jesus taught to pray "Our Father"

I thought we discussed awhile back, and it was exhausting too, Jesus referred to God as "ELI"?

Show me where Jesus drank wine? I must have missed that verse.

The crucifixion? Which one? The one where the dead rose up and walked or the one where both thieves made fun of Jesus or the one where one thief did make fun and the other didn't or which one?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Not sure that is true. You have threatened to get some of your buddies to sign up here on AFF. It shows you have the propensity for Jihad and would likely engage if you were in the majority. You threw that threat down pretty easy, IMO.

Wow!

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Not sure that is true. You have threatened to get some of your buddies to sign up here on AFF. It shows you have the propensity for Jihad and would likely engage if you were in the majority. You threw that threat down pretty easy, IMO.

LOL do you feel "threatened" by online discussion with Muslims? You are truly an iron oak example of faith.

As to your other implications I am actually "the majority" right here, right now and have many christian colleagues. As noted they even "gasp" hold services here, and have for many years.

In this, your false accusation above does not actually match up with reality. There were only a few primary commandments and those commandments are really not that hard to keep straight. The above is a primary example of breaking one.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Barb

Wow!

I know WOW SHOCKING OMG give me a break.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You are not "saved" until you pass the test as judgment. This is a fallacy of (current) christian teaching. Turning "All Men" into "everyone but us".

And you're the arbiter of what parts of the bible are correct and what are not?

The truth is Jesus Christ stated that belief IN THE SON OF GOD, which your Koran says cannot exist since you believe God cannot have a Son, is what saves us and gives us eternal life. You are living by works as though on a grist mill of never-ending futility that leaves you lost.

The truth is you fell for a lie that rejects the pathway to eternal life that ANYONE cane receive. Thank God many muslims are being converted to the Christian faith. The ridiculous conclusion that Christianity makes people into "everyone but us" is betrayed as nonsense by the very fact that whatever truth is real makes those who believe and accept it to be everyone but us. Your conclusion has no sense.

Whatever it is that YOU believe is truth demands that you have an "everyone else but us" mentality about it. Whatever belief anyone takes as truth makes only those who adhere to it to be "everyone else but us."

Joh 3:14-21 KJV And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I have always said that the bible has been corrupted and have provided columns of examples of this.

On what basis do you know what is corrupt and what is not? On the Koran? What kind of reasoning is that? What makes the Koran not corrupt and the Bible corrupt? What is your standard? You have none. You blindly accept the Koran and make yourself believe it is truth just because you made yourself believe it. you have no standard to judge anything by except your whims.

I proved the bible out like Jesus said to do:

Joh 7:16-17 KJV Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. (17) If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

If you have not tried what the Lord and apostles said, as though the bible was totally incorrupt, you have no right to say what is right or wrong about it. Again, you have no standard to go by.

You ask me about Paul? Just on the issue of Paul's conversion there are three versions, the three versions are contradictory.

Show me ONE. I heard them all, and they are all incorrect and easily explained to show nothing contradicts anything else. I challenge you to show me one contradiction and watch how I debunk your error.

The crucifixion stories are contradictory. The resurrection stories are contradictory.

All empty claims and no proofs. Same old same old.

Prove something for a change.

The entire book has to be taken as one message, what is attributed to God has to be set aside and carefully compared to what one is taught to do and be, and the contradictions weeded out. With that said, wsme of what Paul taught is valid and matches the rest of it, and some is not.

All empty words. No proofs for anything you say.

You seem upset that I do not agree with the teachings of Paul

I could care less if you disagree with Paul. Why this repeated lie about me being upset? Tell the truth. You talk and never prove anything you say.

yet you summarily dismiss Paul's direction for ladies to keep silent in church

I certainly do not dismiss that whatsoever. The context -- which you always miss consistently -- says for women to keep silence and ask their husbands at home. That informs us that women often asked questions about the sermon and were out of order, or else it would not have stated they were to ask their husbands at home. It was not speaking in general. You don't know your stuff about the bible.

and dismiss Paul's direction for ladies to cover their hair (neither of which we dismiss, albeit from our own book) and worse the church criticizes it when Muslims do it,

It is an eastern custom not necessary for our culture, which is why muslims keep it since it is a middle eastern thing. Hello?

In this you dent the teachings of Paul in your own ministry. Since you take yourselves to be under these teachings and claim that you must follow them for salvation and do not follow them is it not a bit hypocritical to capitalize your OMG UTTER SHOCK when e-speaking to me about it? Don't answer, I withdraw the question.

I keep everything the bible teaches.

Your implication that a quiet note (several) to follow Jesus' actions and directions is interpreted as not believing and incorporating what Jesus taught into our religious practices is contradictory in itself. How in the world can you twist "exactly follow Jesus' actions and teachings" into such an accusation?

You are not even making comprehensible sense in that paragraph. Rephrase it.

The first pillar of Islam is belief in One God, not shared, no room for another, no compromise. That statement traces all the way back to "Hear Oh Israel". Implicit in this is that no good works one can do can save anyone because it is required that all good works are done in serving Him, all results of those works attributed to Him. God has always required men to serve Him and attribute everything to Him, not to themselves or to each other. Minus this, I agree with you that deeds are not, in themselves, enough.

Good works required in serving Him is NOT the same as no good works can save us. What a distortion of the Word you make. You make the truth ineffective that says the work we must do for eternal life is BELIEVE. You make the word ineffective that says Abraham's faith was counted to him for righteousness.

Walks, do you believe the TEMPLE OF SOLOMON EVEN EXISTED ON THE TEMPLE MOUNT in Jerusalem where your unclean dome of the rock is?

Now, answer why Jesus said no man comes to the FATHER but by Him.

You ignored these words in another thread:

FROM THE KORAN: The Women, 4.171...

"...believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector."

Bible:

Joh 3:16 KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


What do you say about this, Walks?

the Koran, Surah 4:157, Women...

"And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure."

Joh 2:22 KJV When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


Walks? What is it with the Koran here?

God told Moses this:

Deu 18:18 KJV I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Walks, do you believe Mohammed is that prophet?


The woman at the well knew the Messiah was that one who would speak all things that God commanded.

Joh 4:25 KJV The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

And Jesus said HE WAS THAT PROPHET!

Joh 4:25-26 KJV The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. (26) Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Mohammed is NOT that prophet Moses foretold. Jesus is.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by GISG

That's a fact!
I'm stunned someone who worships a dead satan wannabe has the colossal nerve to say anything about any apostolic preacher! sheesh....

I am unstunned that the lot of you would jump to the defense of a man who spews untrue stories and made up doctrines over a pulpit as if the title "apostolic preacher" gives a man free reign to openly deceive those who listen to him

Newsflash: The emperor is naked, and if you had handled this yourselves then he would not have had the opportunity to insert himself onto the world stage to have his message examined.

I'm leaving for Bahrain. See y'all in a couple days!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I am unstunned that the lot of you would jump to the defense of a man who spews untrue stories and made up doctrines over a pulpit as if the title "apostolic preacher" gives a man free reign to openly deceive those who listen to him

Newsflash: The emperor is naked, and if you had handled this yourselves then he would not have had the opportunity to insert himself onto the world stage to have his message examined.

You follow a false prophet who lied and said God spoke to him and claimed to be the prophet Moses spoke of when Jesus Christ attributed that role to Himself, as well as saying no man comes to God by by Him. Nothing you say about these issues warrants any credence due to your false spirit. Join the muslims who are denying Allah and come to Jesus Christ, the only true God.