Coward or Compromisor?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Some are concerned about rckrt's feelings. What about the trail of spiritual dead bodies he has left? I know the dangers of this attitude.

If the upci took on legalism 40 years we wouldn't have talk of 2,000 ministers leaving an organization today.

I am not concerned about Reckarts feelings & I would have to guess that he probably isn't to concerned about mine either.
That being said, whether the things he is saying is true or not, I don't have to respond in kind by being mean.

Just because one throws mud doesn't mean we as a child of God can do the same.

JMHO

[tv1a]

Some people aren't cut out for spiritual warfare.

Originally Posted by Ron

I am not concerned about Reckarts feelings & I would have to guess that he probably isn't to concerned about mine either.
That being said, whether the things he is saying is true or not, I don't have to respond in kind by being mean.

Just because one throws mud doesn't mean we as a child of God can do the same.

JMHO

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I would also ask why some keep calling Reckart "Bro" (which he STILL may be in Gods eyes) but not some evil trinitarian like Chuck Swindol.
If I were a betting man I'd MUCH rather be Chuck on judgment day then Reckart.

Does "Bro" call all other OPs "Bro" are does he call them other less flattering names? Does he consider any of us "Bros"?

[pelathais]

When your life has been touched by the mental illness of a loved one you gain some perspectives on the disease and its manifestations. You also can grow resentful of those who facilitate the madness and have actually become "codependent" with the afflicted one.

In the old days, the afflicted were either shunned or rose to positions of power. In our "enlightened" age we tend to avoid shunning these poor souls and so they are free to gain power and influence over the lives of others.

The costs associated with mental illness are almost incalculable. The loss of productivity, the depression and attendant toll the disease take upon those around the sufferer, and the victims of the sufferer as well.

Our society should not be afraid to stand up and face the challenges associated with mental illness. One step has been to require sex offenders to register themselves thus forcing them to accept responsibility for their behavior and to protect future victims against recidivism.

Another step would be to practice the age old concept of "shunning." No one likes to think of themselves as "abandoning" a sick person to their illness. However, mental disease is fed by certain types of social contact. By making contact with the diseased individual you are in effect "giving alcohol to an alcoholic."

When they see that their behavior has isolated them, many sufferers will amend their behavior to more acceptable norms.

[mizpeh]

Should we shun our brothers and sisters in Christ who have mental illnesses?

Is being rude and hateful and judgemental a mental illness?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Should we shun our brothers and sisters in Christ who have mental illnesses?

Is being rude and hateful and judgemental a mental illness?

I would say that in most cases being "rude and hateful and judgmental" is just a part of being human. When we see ourselves doing those things we tend to feel embarassed and remorseful and seek to do better.

When someone does not feel the standard feelings of remorse we should suspect something is wrong. It maybe we are dealing with an entirely moral issue and the Bible of course gives us guidance there.

However I have been closely involved with individuals who exhibited "moral compromises" without remorse and found that this behavior was interwoven with patterns of thought that fit many classic types of mental illness. You really have to be close to someone to see this, and even then love and other common assumptions will cause you to overlook the obvious for years. I say "you" here, but I really mean "me." I overlooked the obvious for years.

I'm no clinician, but a common standard for evaluating whether or not a particular behavior is a "disease" is if the behavior prevents an individual from participating in the usual routines of life. One way to evaluate these things is to look at relationships. Is the individual capable of maintaining long term relationships, or do they tend to "go through people?"

Ironically, that's a good way to evaluate a church. Does it tend to cycle through people leaving broken relationships in its wake?

There are many other factors that come into play as well. However in a thread where names are mentioned we are reminded of the forum rules and cannot describe things in too great a detail.

Should we shun someone who has a mental illness? Yes, in many cases. It's not a panacea, but for those who exhibit destructive and anti-social behaviors we do have Biblical precedent (1 Corinthians 5).

In one church where I was involved there was a local street person who would interupt the services by barging in and screaming and waving alcoholic beverages around. When we learned to ignore this behavior of his he stopped because he had no audience. So also with folks who exhibit disturbing behavior in other ways. They are doing these things because they have not been able to establish healthy and lasting relationships in their lives.

As E.B. pointed out, it's like a dog that doesn't get attention and leaves a "surprise" for you to clean up. The answer for the dog is to get it involved in healthy relationships. Same thing when a human leaves "poo" around on the Internet - by ignoring them you are forcing them to ammend their behavior and to find ways to create healthy relationships.

[tv1a]

When this dog was ignored, he put up a wall of shame. When this dog was ignored he put devil horns on Bro. Haney. When this dog was ignored, his minions turn Bill Price in marshmellow cream. Ignoring this guy is dangerous to the weak amongst our midst. The Bill Prices of the world need to know there is someone who will not put up with this nonsense from rckrt and his cult. The big boys can handle themselves. Who will stand up for BP?

Originally Posted by pelathais

I would say that in most cases being "rude and hateful and judgmental" is just a part of being human. When we see ourselves doing those things we tend to feel embarassed and remorseful and seek to do better.

When someone does not feel the standard feelings of remorse we should suspect something is wrong. It maybe we are dealing with an entirely moral issue and the Bible of course gives us guidance there.

However I have been closely involved with individuals who exhibited "moral compromises" without remorse and found that this behavior was interwoven with patterns of thought that fit many classic types of mental illness. You really have to be close to someone to see this, and even then love and other common assumptions will cause you to overlook the obvious for years. I say "you" here, but I really mean "me." I overlooked the obvious for years.

I'm no clinician, but a common standard for evaluating whether or not a particular behavior is a "disease" is if the behavior prevents an individual from participating in the usual routines of life. One way to evaluate these things is to look at relationships. Is the individual capable of maintaining long term relationships, or do they tend to "go through people?"

Ironically, that's a good way to evaluate a church. Does it tend to cycle through people leaving broken relationships in its wake?

There are many other factors that come into play as well. However in a thread where names are mentioned we are reminded of the forum rules and cannot describe things in too great a detail.

Should we shun someone who has a mental illness? Yes, in many cases. It's not a panacea, but for those who exhibit destructive and anti-social behaviors we do have Biblical precedent (1 Corinthians 5).

In one church where I was involved there was a local street person who would interupt the services by barging in and screaming and waving alcoholic beverages around. When we learned to ignore this behavior of his he stopped because he had no audience. So also with folks who exhibit disturbing behavior in other ways. They are doing these things because they have not been able to establish healthy and lasting relationships in their lives.

As E.B. pointed out, it's like a dog that doesn't get attention and leaves a "surprise" for you to clean up. The answer for the dog is to get it involved in healthy relationships. Same thing when a human leaves "poo" around on the Internet - by ignoring them you are forcing them to ammend their behavior and to find ways to create healthy relationships.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by tv1a

When this dog was ignored, he put up a wall of shame. When this dog was ignored he put devil horns on Bro. Haney. When this dog was ignored, his minions turn Bill Price in marshmellow cream. Ignoring this guy is dangerous to the weak amongst our midst. The Bill Prices of the world need to know there is someone who will not put up with this nonsense from rckrt and his cult. The big boys can handle themselves. Who will stand up for BP?

I tend to agree. Just as Reckart feels he is "exposing" false prophets he himself is subject to exposure...some of the best is merely quoting him and his followers

[mizpeh]

What's the diagnosis, Dr Pel?

[John Atkinson]

__________________
"One the biggest tragedies within our movement." Daniel Alicea speaking about pelathais' preaching.

I really like Dan-o on a personal level, but with that sig line I just gotta hear some of your preaching.