Number 1 cause of Hate, Disunity, and War

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think a major issue with relation to "religion" with regards to hate, disunity, and/or war is "centralization". ORGANIZED religion can be deadly. The historical church has murdered countless numbers of her own who were seeking truth. As an organic Pentecostal I value "decentralization". I believe that a "church" can be a circle of brethren meeting in homes or other venues who own no buildings or have any licensing. "Elders" are viewed more as "spiritual mentors" or "spiritual fathers". The local gathering functions more like a "family" than a "non-profit corporation". I believe that this is how Christianity flourished during it's first 200 to 300 years. It wasn't until Christianity began to become centralized with a episcopate that allied with the Roman state do we see the abuses of power and greed on such a wide scale. If we could get back to the simplicity of the Gospel... gathering together... two or more... elders not being those who hold an "office" but those who serve as mentors... we'd become a body that values decentralized power, diversity in opinion and interpretation, and focuses on simply following Jesus.

Organized religion can be deadly. That's why I reject it. Nothing of God would do such evil to individuals or societies. We need to return to the wide open Christian faith and reject Christian religion.

Excellent post!!!!!!!!!

[Aquila]

Some have asked me about abuse in house churches. Given the nature of house churches, and the people who attend them, an abusive elder would be abandoned very quickly. Simply... don't go to his house. You are not bound to him or that gathering. I think if a more decentralized understanding of what church is was embraced... we'd see fewer "sheeple" tolerating abuse and manipulation. I love the unity in diversity I find in house churches. It's truly something I am blessed to have found.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Naw, Satan helps orchestrate things a bit, but he is not responsible for the latent selfishness and desire for power in people.

Satan and man both used their free moral agency to originate actions that fell short of the goodness of God. Without the fall of Lucifer (Satan) we would be in a total different world today.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by aquila

i think a major issue with relation to "religion" with regards to hate, disunity, and/or war is "centralization". Organized religion can be deadly. The historical church has murdered countless numbers of her own who were seeking truth. As an organic pentecostal i value "decentralization". I believe that a "church" can be a circle of brethren meeting in homes or other venues who own no buildings or have any licensing. "elders" are viewed more as "spiritual mentors" or "spiritual fathers". The local gathering functions more like a "family" than a "non-profit corporation". I believe that this is how christianity flourished during it's first 200 to 300 years. It wasn't until christianity began to become centralized with a episcopate that allied with the roman state do we see the abuses of power and greed on such a wide scale. If we could get back to the simplicity of the gospel... Gathering together... Two or more... Elders not being those who hold an "office" but those who serve as mentors... We'd become a body that values decentralized power, diversity in opinion and interpretation, and focuses on simply following jesus.

Organized religion can be deadly. That's why i reject it. Nothing of god would do such evil to individuals or societies. We need to return to the wide open christian faith and reject christian religion.

men amen and amen

[renee819]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I never said, "Biblical True Christianity". I said, Religion. Whether we like it or not, Christianity is a Religion.

Shall we talk about Christianity and Slavery? Christianity and the Native Americans? Christianity and the Salem Witch Trials? Christianity in Northern Ireland? Christianity and the Muslims?

NO! Let's talk about YOU, ME and to others on here, today. We are not responsible for what happened in the past.

We should be talking about,

How to not let that happen in the future!
How to get closer to God!
How to love your neighbor as yourself!
How to help The Church come out of the slump that it is in!.
How to start Pentecostal/Apostolic House Churches across this nation.!
Do we have ANY TRUE Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Teachers, and Pastors, to perfect the saints for the work of the ministry, instead of a one man show.!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

No offense Luke, but the Bible has only been available (in its current version) for only about 200 years. Modern printing presses were invented in the 1800's and literacy (the ability to read) became more apparent by the middle 1800's via the "The Elementary Education Act of 1870".

This is another problem with so many who develop dogmas or ideas that people from yesterday were all carting around Bibles under their arms, thumping everyone with Acts 2:38. People were put to death for possessing a valid copy of a Bible before the 1600's, and even if they had one, most people couldn't read it.

Countless throughout history????????

ROFL...the printing press was invented in 1450.

Most people could not read the bible because it was in Latin. That is why they made english versions. The RCC outlawed any translation OTHER than Latin.

Believe it or not there were a LOT of Educated people who could read the bible. We called them "Ministers" :-)

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Originally Posted by Titus2woman
Wow... from seeker to slapping down the saints in just a few short weeks... Nice job on becoming an overnight expert Newbie... And on mastering dismissive and unkind language.

What happened to this post?

It's that awesome edit feature... The one that can be used when one rolls out of bed with only a couple of hours sleep from a calf that just had to be born backwards at 2 am... and tries to decipher some of the weirder things on AFF.... And having mixed up posters... and not wanting to say someting to someone in response to something they never said... TaaaDaaa one is simply able to DELETE it!

Why would that annoy you?

Actually the dismissive and unkind language belonged to you NFS

[NotforSale]

In today's Headlines:

"Egypt’s Health Ministry said 275 people died and more than 1,400 were wounded in Cairo and in the ensuing violence nationwide, state news media reported.

The Muslim Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party, which backs the ousted president, put the death toll at more than 2,000. The number could not be confirmed.

Witnesses counted at least 42 bodies at a makeshift hospital run by Morsi supporters at the site of the largest sit-in outside the Rabaa al-Adawiya Mosque in Cairo’s Nasr City District.

The Health Ministry’s figure made Wednesday the single deadliest day in Egypt since the 2011 uprising that ended the 30-year rule of Hosni Mubarak.

State news media reported after nightfall that security forces arrested at least three top Muslim Brotherhood officials. But one of those officials, Essam al-Erian, denied the report on his Facebook page.

The Egyptian Foreign Ministry said the raids were carried out as “a last resort” after serious government efforts to mediate a safe exit for protesters.

“After six long weeks of illegal, unauthorized sit-ins,” and after finding evidence of “torture” in the encampments, Egypt’s prosecutor general authorized security forces to break up the camps, Badr Abdelatty, a Foreign Ministry spokesman, said in a statement.

The Muslim Brotherhood said the 17-year-old daughter of a leading Islamist politician, Mohamed el-Beltagi, was among the protesters shot dead as Egyptian police stormed the Rabaa al-Adawiya, firing automatic rifles, bulldozing tents and beating and arresting protesters."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...f84_story.html

[Praxeas]

And?

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

ROFL...the printing press was invented in 1450.

Most people could not read the bible because it was in Latin. That is why they made english versions. The RCC outlawed any translation OTHER than Latin.

Believe it or not there were a LOT of Educated people who could read the bible. We called them "Ministers" :-)

Prax, I said "Modern Printing Presses". The main English form of a Bible was obviously written in the 1600's, known as the King James. But still, no ability to print Bibles on a massive scale, as that didn't happen until the Industrial Revolution, when "MODERN" Printing presses were invented.

"Today, printing is very different from the process used in Gutenberg's workshop. By modern standards, Gutenberg's printing process may seem slow and tedious; compositors put type together by hand, and a skilled compositor could assemble 2,000 characters or letters in an hour. A computer can arrange the same number of characters in about two seconds. Today, more words are being printed every second than were printed every year during the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries.

What changed? Why aren't we still using Gutenberg's press? Until the nineteenth century, printers completed each step of printing by hand, just as they did in Gutenberg's printshop. As technology evolved, inventors adapted these new technologies to revolutionize printing. Steam engines and, later, electrical engines were incorporated into the design of printing presses. In the 1970s, computers were integrated into the printing process."

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/educator/m...ooks/printing/