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03-29-2009, 11:46 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
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Originally Posted by JTTNMinistries
We deny the pre-existence of the Son but we affirm the pre-existence of He who came as the Son. 2 Cor 5:19; 1 Tim 3:16 etc etc. |
So in a sense one could still say the Son was eternal - just without the added component of humanity...
At some point it seems to be more semantics than actual substantive difference.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-29-2009, 11:52 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
So in a sense one could still say the Son was eternal - just without the added component of humanity...At some point it seems to be more semantics than actual substantive difference.
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The Son was NOT eternal only in the mind of God He was begotten on a certain day the scripture plainly declares. Heb.1:5-6.
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03-30-2009, 12:13 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
The Son was NOT eternal only in the mind of God He was begotten on a certain day the scripture plainly declares. Heb.1:5-6.
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It then begs the question; if something is eternal ONLY in the mind of God - is that anything less than reality?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-30-2009, 12:52 AM
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Wouldn't Take Nothin' For My Journey Now!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,358
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
A good song.
The only people I've heard sing that song considered themselves trinitarian.
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Our praise and worship team sing it often. I promise you, we are not
trinitarian but we do love those folks. The church is full of ex-trinitarian
people. They make excellent oneness Pentecostals when the Lord opens
their understanding that they might understand the scriptures.
Blessings,
Falla39
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03-30-2009, 01:10 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
It then begs the question; if something is eternal ONLY in the mind of God - is that anything less than reality?
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That is a valid point!!!!!!!!!!!!!
His thoughts cannot fail.
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03-30-2009, 03:08 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
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Originally Posted by pelathais
I believe Tertullian used the Latin "persona" as a translation for the Greek hypostasis?
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No, because Latin has the same word "Hypostasis". Nicea was in latin
Greek was hupstasis.
[Late Latin, from Greek hupostasis : hupo-, hypo- + stasis, a standing; see stā- in Indo-European roots.]
hy'poˇstat'ic (hī'pə-stāt'ĭk), hy'poˇstat'iˇcal adj., hy'poˇstat'iˇcalˇly adv.
Persona is the Latin of the greek Prosopon
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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03-30-2009, 03:10 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTTNMinistries
We deny the pre-existence of the Son but we affirm the pre-existence of He who came as the Son. 2 Cor 5:19; 1 Tim 3:16 etc etc. |
Essentially the same thing. We are afraid to say the pre-existence of the Son because it would be confused with Trinitarianism a pre-existing Son. But I am ok with saying "the Son pre-existed" as long as it is qualified with "but not as the Son but as He who came AS the Son."
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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03-30-2009, 09:57 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Essentially the same thing. We are afraid to say the pre-existence of the Son because it would be confused with Trinitarianism a pre-existing Son. But I am ok with saying "the Son pre-existed" as long as it is qualified with "but not as the Son but as He who came AS the Son."
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Again very good.
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04-02-2009, 03:20 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Posts: 1,023
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
JESUS was the "Son" "according to the flesh", so without the begetting of flesh, there was no "eternally begotten Son", unless you have a 6 foot tall, brown haired, brown eyed man, next to GOD in eternity past, waiting to come down as the Son. That's how I understand it anyways.
-Bro. Alex
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04-02-2009, 03:44 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen
JESUS was the "Son" "according to the flesh", so without the begetting of flesh, there was no "eternally begotten Son", unless you have a 6 foot tall, brown haired, brown eyed man, next to GOD in eternity past, waiting to come down as the Son. That's how I understand it anyways.
-Bro. Alex
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hmmm not just according to the flesh though. He was the Son of God. The Son is not simply a container for divinity.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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