I agree that God is rational but by whose measure. Certainly we should measure all rationality and all logic by the Sovereign God who is the source of all things. Too often we invert the process and try to define God Almighty by flawed human rationale and logic.
Very good Point Dr. I mean Bro. Phil
I know one thing. If one of my family was sick and dying, and God told me to dip in a dirty river 7 times, march around the walls of a city, raise a stick above a sea, take a coin from a fish's mouth, or breath into the nostrils of my sick loved one... I'd do it.
The FACT that some die and some live, some are healed and some are not, DOES NOT negate the FACT that Jesus is still a healer and miracles have NOT ceased.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
It's the fruit that Im concerned about. Bad exposition, bad theology, and logical nonsense can bear good fruit?? Ok, if you say so.
Im not bitter about my father...I am skeptical about the present day moving of God, as you call it, when the theological IQ of believer's is marginal. But that's just me.
As far as someone knowing if God is telling them something...it seems to be very subjective to me and worthy of suspicion...I would be a fool to believe something because someone said it was God telling them. I'll go to the book.
No question that God can do what He wants. However, the apostle's ARE dead and the environment of their miracles and the reasons for them are different and no longer apply.
a
So are you saying that you believe in the Doctrine of Cessation?
__________________
I DIDN'T HAVE A HAIR CUTTING PARTY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Pelathais, I sure hope you don't get banned for telling the truth.
I have seen so many lies posted. The best one is the one Triumphant 1 did his best to combat. You know, the hair cutting party thing?
Prominent members of this board chose to believe the lie and even continue to spread it, even though T1 had totally proved it was false.
...
The FACT that some die and some live, some are healed and some are not, DOES NOT negate the FACT that Jesus is still a healer and miracles have NOT ceased.
Amen!!!
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I would love to see some scripture for this statement?
The scripture I read says that "greater than these shall YE do".
Concerning my statement, However, the apostle's ARE dead and the environment of their miracles and the reasons for them are different and no longer apply.
Im not sure what you're asking because the truth of my statement appears, to me, to be self-evident.
But in case you're wondering about my opinion concerning modern "apostles"...
We are not today giving the testimony of eyewitnesses to the resurrection while contending with Judaism and a system of Roman Paganism. That is a particular set of circumstances which God worked in to solidify Christian doctrine by using a select few to do wonders and miracles through to validate their message.
There are distinct deeds of an apostle that other believer's could not perform otherwise why would Paul list such deeds in II Corinthians 12:12?? I would also contend that to be called an apostle one would have to see the resurrected Lord, i.e. I Corinthians 9:1, which other than the special circumstances of Paul, did not happen after His ascension.
No matter though, a person's proclaimed apostleship can be easily established today....do what the originals did. That is doubtful.
If one wants to redefine the word "apostle" then that's fine, but I will redefine my reaction to them. In other words, I will not give them the respect that I give the originals.
The canon is complete.
As far as the verse you quoted....it happened...through the apostles and the early church.
Remember the verse says "anyone who has faith in me" not a special class of Christian that are more silly than right.
The special circumstances of the first century do not apply today.
God is not developing the canon.
God is not validating and authenticating the authors of the canon.
God is not validating and authenticating the foundation (Ephesians 5:20) of the Christian faith.
God works through the Word by the Spirit and the need for these "prophets" and "apostles" is not warranted nor should be wanted, in my opinion.
__________________
"Love God and do what you please"
-St. Augustine
sola Christus
sola gratia
sola fide
sola deo gloria
So are you saying that you believe in the Doctrine of Cessation?
I think the doctrine of cessation and those who teach it and believe it is attempted through special pleading and is not the intent of Paul when he wrote I Corinthians 13:8.
So...no the doctrine of cessation cannot be established through the text.
And no...I don't believe in the doctrine of cessation but I do believe in informed discernment and careful exegesis.
a
__________________
"Love God and do what you please"
-St. Augustine
sola Christus
sola gratia
sola fide
sola deo gloria
Concerning my statement, However, the apostle's ARE dead and the environment of their miracles and the reasons for them are different and no longer apply.
Im not sure what you're asking because the truth of my statement appears, to me, to be self-evident.
But in case you're wondering about my opinion concerning modern "apostles"...
We are not today giving the testimony of eyewitnesses to the resurrection while contending with Judaism and a system of Roman Paganism. That is a particular set of circumstances which God worked in to solidify Christian doctrine by using a select few to do wonders and miracles through to validate their message.
There are distinct deeds of an apostle that other believer's could not perform otherwise why would Paul list such deeds in II Corinthians 12:12?? I would also contend that to be called an apostle one would have to see the resurrected Lord, i.e. I Corinthians 9:1, which other than the special circumstances of Paul, did not happen after His ascension.
No matter though, a person's proclaimed apostleship can be easily established today....do what the originals did. That is doubtful.
If one wants to redefine the word "apostle" then that's fine, but I will redefine my reaction to them. In other words, I will not give them the respect that I give the originals.
The canon is complete.
As far as the verse you quoted....it happened...through the apostles and the early church.
Remember the verse says "anyone who has faith in me" not a special class of Christian that are more silly than right.
The special circumstances of the first century do not apply today.
God is not developing the canon.
God is not validating and authenticating the authors of the canon.
God is not validating and authenticating the foundation (Ephesians 5:20) of the Christian faith.
God works through the Word by the Spirit and the need for these "prophets" and "apostles" is not warranted nor should be wanted, in my opinion.
I appreciate your clarification, and on this point, I do agree.
When I initially read your statement, it appeared to me that you were saying that the need for miracles was no longer existent, but I understand your viewpoint much more clearly now.
Thanks again.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
I agree that God is rational but by whose measure. Certainly we should measure all rationality and all logic by the Sovereign God who is the source of all things. Too often we invert the process and try to define God Almighty by flawed human rationale and logic.
Well if you believe that God is rational then I guess it would be by the ordinary standards or else why would you believe it??
I would contend that for you to think of a world without a creator would be illogical and irrational.
The proof of God is because of the impossibility of the contrary. Rationality, and an honest atheist, demands a world of order and uniformity which can only be logically adduced using the Christian presupposition.
A sovereign God exists and what He creates possesses rationality, logic, uniformity and order.
The atheist assumes rationality, logic, uniformity and order but denies the existence of a sovereign God...which leaves him without justification for what he assumes.
a
__________________
"Love God and do what you please"
-St. Augustine
sola Christus
sola gratia
sola fide
sola deo gloria
I appreciate your clarification, and on this point, I do agree.
When I initially read your statement, it appeared to me that you were saying that the need for miracles was no longer existent, but I understand your viewpoint much more clearly now.
Thanks again.
Glad I could clarify.
God bless,
a
__________________
"Love God and do what you please"
-St. Augustine
sola Christus
sola gratia
sola fide
sola deo gloria
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