Explanation of Changes in UPC

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

5 pages.......
49 posts.......

folks, the UPC needs a healer.

No, it needs a resurrection! What does that say about it?

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by embonpoint

5 from the men and the other 10 from their wives???

......lol! Men are more opinionated than women! ... and that is a fact that you cannot dispute! LOL jk

[Kings Kid]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

No, it needs a resurrection! What does that say about it?

I agree with you it needs resurrection.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

......lol! Men are more opinionated than women! ... and that is a fact that you cannot dispute! LOL jk

Be it far from me to dispute your unopinionated, position on the matter.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Harmony

What explanation should the pastors give to there saints in regards to the recent changes?

If you are a UPC member and you do not have access to the internet and do not have tv you are not going to know that a large amount of the organization is no longer there.

I have alot of family spread out in one district, attending several different upc churches. Some of the Pastors are being forthright and letting there congregations know that there are "Issues" in the Organization.

There was a family get together. All of the changes where being discussed, in regards to the "fallout". It was the first time one of the family members had heard anything about any fallout of the UPC. They went straight to the senior pastor and asked about it. He said that there are no changes going on in the UPC, No fallout whatsoever. He said whoever is filling your head with that nonsense is just spreading gossip and rumors. This person was very upset and called her family that she had the discussion with and scolded them for trying to cause division by spreading gossip.

What do you think a pastor needs to tell their congregation in regards to the "changes in the UPC". If you are a Pastor of a UPC church would you let us in on how you are handling this with your saints. Are you talking to them about it? Are you just going to let everyone figure it out on there own..thru hearsay?

It doesn't really speak well of this minister. He has held some of the highest positions you can hold in the upc, and for him to say that nothing is going on...has to be...untruthful. I will not believe for one second that He doesn't know in detail what is going on....It irks me that he is not being forthright about it. This person will believe him over what anyone in her family would tell her.

The pastor might leave and take some people with him as happens many times but they can't take the church building,it belongs to UPC org.The people who stays will just get a new pastor.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by Joelel

The pastor might leave and take some people with him as happens many times but they can't take the church building,it belongs to UPC org.The people who stays will just get a new pastor.

Few of the buildings belong to the org. They typically belong to the local church. In fact in the case of an incorporated local church where the corporation owned the property I don't think that the org could take the church even if it was affiliated and the pastor left the org unless there was a restriction recorded with the deed.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by CC1

Right off the bat your premise is flawed. It is not accurate to say that "a large part of the organization is no longer there". That is just false at this time. Might be true at some point in the future but certainly not right now.

Originally Posted by Harmony

True...It hasn't happened yet, but look at all of the endless conversations here on this forum alone about what if, how, and who. It is obvious that there are big changes ahead for this organization.

Harmony, keep in mind that there are a lot of UPC "haters" on this forum. Some of these people here have "issues" or resentment against the UPC for its stand on standards, and insistence on Acts 2:38 salvation (i.e. "3-steps" verses 1-step). So anything that seems to weaken the UPC, they take as good news.

I would say in the end there will be some defections from the UPC, but not to the extent that the organization will be seriously damaged as a whole. A lot of what you see on this board is just wishful thinking in that regard.

Despite its imperfections, the UPCI is still the flagship organization of Apostolic truth, and has been greatly used by God to bring millions to salvation. I'm confident God's hand will continue to work in the organization, to do His will and to further the advancement of His kingdom.


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[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Depending on the size of the church and staff, he should talk with the leaders first and get feedback from them. If the pastor is secure in who he is and what God has called him to do, he should go to the church in a closed business meeting, share his heart/vision of where he believes the Lord is leading him. Honesty is the best thing here and integrity is the only "capital" he has. If the church is behind him, they have their compass heading. If not, he has his and if his vision would tear the church up, he should leave and find God's place for him.

When I left the UPC, that is exactly what I did. I told the church 1 year prior to leaving that I would not sign the AS any longer and they had 1 year to decide the direction they wanted to go. If they wanted to keep me as pastor, we would have to change our by-laws. If they wanted to stay in the UPC, I would help them find a UPC pastor.

1 year later, they voted 100% to keep me and pull out of the UPC. I did not mandate the change nor did I hold anyone "hostage" with threats.

If a pastor has to be deceitful in sharing his heart/vision, he has no business being a pastor/leader.

This is not rocket science. This is not politics. It is basic leadership with integrity.

Most excellent!

The more I read your posts, the more I wish you would pick up your church and move to Delaware. Any chance of that happening??? (We do not have any sales tax here in Delaware, you know!!!)

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

My pastor has not addressed the issue and I see no reason why he should. It doesn't affect our church. I don't think he's keeping it secret, he just has more important things to talk about.

If I had been preached to all my life that TV was a sin...

And then found out later that the very organization that had been preaching THAT to me had decided it was OK to advertise on that sin-box...

But they had never told me about it???

I would feel cheated. Violated. And most definitely confused. And yes, I would think that was sneaky.

Pastors definitely need to be upfront about it.

I remember when I found out about the AS ... quite accidentally while surfing online. I was appalled, and wondered, what in the world am I supporting?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

Yes he is.

I don't know how he is going to fit in with the Tulsa group because he watches videos. I know this to be true. I have preached many times for him and been in his home.

And now will probably never preach for him again.