Why I Am A Futurist

[mfblume]

You violate the scripture:

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

You believe in two gospels:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Gospel above is not the gospel here:

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

or here:

Colossians 1:5-6 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; (6) Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

You judge me as going to hell for believing leaves are symbolic.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

You believe the church is the city and are as trees with leaves and fruit is whacko symbolism. Meanwhile:

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Psalms 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Isaiah 62:12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.


And yet of them all, you say I am going to hell for believing leaves are symbolic.

Sean, get a grip. You are acting nutty. Saying the leaves are symbolic is not taking away the words of the book of Revelation. It is keeping those words and interpreting them by other passages in the bible like Psalm 1.

You say the leaves are real but not the Lamb. Why? What gives you the right? how do you know? The verse says nothing about the lamb being a symbol. What gives you the grounds to say it is a symbol and leaves are not. What is different about what is said about the lamb and about the leaves in the same book that makes one a symbol and other not?

[Bowas]

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe." ~MFBlume

We should be able to confirm the Word with the Word, and adjust our views to conform to the Word.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Sean

The Gospel in the Old Testament
in ESSENTIAL ARTICLES,GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
When we speak of “the Gospel,” what do we mean? To most Christians it refers to the life of Christ-the various aspects of His ministry and His good works. When one minister was asked to define the Gospel, his reply was, “Well, you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.” But the Gospel is not about the life of Christ, and it is not the four gospels.
What was the Gospel? The Bible states: “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:14-15). So the Bible defines the Gospel as the “gospel of the kingdom.” It was not a message about the Person of Christ. When Jesus preached the Gospel, He did not go about reciting what He had done here or what He had done there. He talked about the coming Kingdom of God-the coming world government.
This same message was also given to the Israelites during the Old Testament period, but they failed to understand it. Paul tells us: “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it” (Heb. 4:2).
- See more at: http://www.bethelcog.org/church/esse....TyXNEpNg.dpuf

Since the day that God clothed Adam and Eve, the “gospel” has been hidden
in types and figures.

You asked: <What was the gospel? It was not about the Person of Christ.>
Of course it was! You got it right when you said it was about <the coming Kingdom
of God…>. The kingdom of God IS the kingdom of SON! It will be an everlasting
kingdom because, since the resurrection, God will always have sons and daughters.
The Lord will come to rule with the church, beginning in Jerusalem.

The message given to the Old Testament Israelites was one of the coming redemption.
And yes, the gospel was not mixed with faith and that generation perished in
the wilderness.

The gospel is manifest in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You violate the scripture:



Sean, get a grip. You are acting nutty. Saying the leaves are symbolic is not taking away the words of the book of Revelation. It is keeping those words and interpreting them by other passages in the bible like Psalm 1.

You say the leaves are real but not the Lamb. Why? What gives you the right? how do you know? The verse says nothing about the lamb being a symbol. What gives you the grounds to say it is a symbol and leaves are not. What is different about what is said about the lamb and about the leaves in the same book that makes one a symbol and other not?

Mike I already said the Lamb is real...it is "another" name to describe Jesus, our Lamb of God.(Just like lion of the tribe of Judah.) Just use Minor Symbolism and you dont have to worry about rewriting the Book of Revelation to your intrigue as you have done.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Bowas

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe." ~MFBlume

We should be able to confirm the Word with the Word, and adjust our views to conform to the Word.

True, we must "confirm" the Word, not "distort" its' meaning as you metaphorists' have done.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Since the day that God clothed Adam and Eve, the “gospel” has been hidden
in types and figures.

You asked: <What was the gospel? It was not about the Person of Christ.>
Of course it was! You got it right when you said it was about <the coming Kingdom
of God…>. The kingdom of God IS the kingdom of SON! It will be an everlasting
kingdom because, since the resurrection, God will always have sons and daughters.
The Lord will come to rule with the church, beginning in Jerusalem.

The message given to the Old Testament Israelites was one of the coming redemption.
And yes, the gospel was not mixed with faith and that generation perished in
the wilderness.

The gospel is manifest in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

What about this...

Hebrews 3
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief......

4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them(Jews of Moses' day) but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


It clearly says the gospel was preached unto the Jews during Moses time. Do you reject this?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

The Gospel in the Old Testament
in ESSENTIAL ARTICLES,GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
When we speak of “the Gospel,” what do we mean? To most Christians it refers to the life of Christ-the various aspects of His ministry and His good works. When one minister was asked to define the Gospel, his reply was, “Well, you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.” But the Gospel is not about the life of Christ, and it is not the four gospels.

What was the Gospel? The Bible states: “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:14-15). So the Bible defines the Gospel as the “gospel of the kingdom.” It was not a message about the Person of Christ. When Jesus preached the Gospel, He did not go about reciting what He had done here or what He had done there. He talked about the coming Kingdom of God-the coming world government.

This same message was also given to the Israelites during the Old Testament period, but they failed to understand it. Paul tells us: “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it” (Heb. 4:2).

- See more at: http://www.bethelcog.org/church/esse....TyXNEpNg.dpuf

Get your head in the game, guys...

[Sean]

Now this is a simple analysis of a passage in Revelation, without eliminating the basic message it is telling us.....

Revelation 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.(Real heaven with a real visible throne)

3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.(beautiful)

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.(what an awesome sight to see!)

5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.(awesome sight, but not sure what the 7 spirits represent......maybe the Holy Ghost dwelling in 7 areas around the world?)

6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.(wow, heaven is full of amazing creatures!)

7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,(these may be a type of angel?)

10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.(This is all very real in heaven, it is all described for the pleasure of our God. Please dont try to steal our Gods' pleasure okay?)

[Sean]

A little more technical....


Revelation 5 King James Version (KJV)

5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.(God is on the throne, holding the book of judgement of the Tribulation)

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.(The prophecies of the O.T. were not sufficient to open the seals until the messiah fulfilled them all)

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.(This represented Jesus as the Lamb of God)

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.(The sacrificed Jesus was a completion of all O.T. prophecy and therefore able to open the seals, unleashing the wrath of God on mankind during the tribulation as described in the rest of the following passages)



You see guys, I use symbolism also(to a degree), but I WILL NOT change the clear and visible message into anything else.
I can only SPECULATE(my best guess) of what these things mean. I need a few ideas to try to figure it out.
This is the "safest" approach to the Book of Rev., without DAMNING our souls in trying to overreach our symbolism.

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Sean

A little more technical....


Revelation 5 King James Version (KJV)

5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.(God is on the throne, holding the book of judgement of the Tribulation)

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.(The prophecies of the O.T. were not sufficient to open the seals until the messiah fulfilled them all)

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.(This represented Jesus as the Lamb of God)

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.(The sacrificed Jesus was a completion of all O.T. prophecy and therefore able to open the seals, unleashing the wrath of God on mankind during the tribulation as described in the rest of the following passages)



You see guys, I use symbolism also(to a degree), but I WILL NOT change the clear and visible message into anything else.
I can only SPECULATE(my best guess) of what these things mean.

Sean. You inadvertently proved our point with your last statement.
You admit you are only "speculating" and "guessing" of what these things mean, yet you claim we are wrong, but you yourself admit you don't know. I know you will say that one thing you do know, is that we are wrong, but how can you claim that, when you don't even know?

If it is so "clear" and "visible," why are you "speculating" and "guessing."

It's been mentioned many times, that if one looks internally, one can get away from speculating and guessing, otherwise that it what is called, "private interpretation."