Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

[DAII]

Originally Posted by coadie

How long have you been wrestling with the abyss of your past?

How long have you had homosexual tendencies or struggling with it ?

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by DAII

Charnock, did anything stand out to you from Scott Graham's message to the youth ... "Trickle Down Theology"?

It's hero worship, plain and simple.

Scott Graham is a wonderful speaker, but his sermon reminds me of the Catholic concepts of 1) papal infallibility and 2) direction from the dead (prayers to the dead).

He is deifying the sainted dead, and asking that their theological positions be given equal weight to the Bible.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Bruce Tuckman said that every group goes through five stages.

1. Forming
2. Storming
3. Norming
4. Performing
5. Adjourning

Originally Posted by DAII

Charnock, where do you see this group?

I don't think the group is adjourning. I think the UPC will exist for many years to come. However, I do believe forming is over. Storming took place in 45. Norming and performing are still taking place.

The process of "norming" is hindering the performance of the group.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Charnock

It's hero worship, plain and simple.

Scott Graham is a wonderful speaker, but his sermon reminds me of the Catholic concepts of 1) papal infallibility and 2) direction from the dead (prayers to the dead).

He is deifying the sainted dead, and asking that their theological positions be given equal weight to the Bible.

I haven't heard the message ... I think I will try to listen to it this weekend and comment on it.

I think a common thread throughout this GC was the hero worship. Why couldnt they garner 100k to complete the Great Commission ... simply because they felt a burden? But throw in the shoes of Billy Cole, Jack Yonts, GA Mangun, JT Pugh, Jim Kilgore ... and there is outright competition to have them.

The memorabilia mentality ... and irony permeated.

The Bernard picture with Parham's lamp is symbolic, imo.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by DAII

How long have you had homosexual tendencies or struggling with it ?

You are sliding between states of consciousness. How often do you ask yourself those questions in public?

[Pro31:28]

Originally Posted by coadie

No. After church is out on Sunday morning, people drive themselves home to lunch or work. Verbal abuse is common at employment also. The military has much more control than do these churches.

This is not true, in abusive situations, people do not just leave church- and in situations where people do finally leave, they are faced with terrible treatment.
If you go AWOL in the military you go to prison, what happens when you leave an abusive church is much worse...

[Pro31:28]

Originally Posted by missourimary

How many employers are verbally abusive whose employees cannot go find another job if they are uncomfortable or find an advocate higher in the company or outside the company who can stop the verbal abuse or work around it? How many employees put their lives-families, money, future-into their work? How many employees feel that if they leave their job, they will go to hell?

Coadie, you apparently don't understand the workings of abusive churches. In an abusive church, you don't leave on Sunday morning and drive to work or lunch. You go home and are afraid someone is looking in your windows, reporting to the pastor that they saw your bedpost through the curtain, so you must be "advertising". You go to work and are concerned that if you say anything that doesn't fit the church model, you'll be reported for an infraction and stood up and publicly rebuked. You go to lunch at a restaurant and worry through the prayer that it might not have been long enough or that you should have prayed louder because the church would expect that. You don't get away from a church like that just because you drive out of the parking lot.

[coadie]

Tell me something new. The Israelites were delivered from bondage and battled missing the fleshpots and various separation anxieties.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by coadie

Tell me something new. The Israelites were delivered from bondage and battled missing the fleshpots and various separation anxieties.

And all but two over a certain age died in the wilderness. So they were mentally bound to their past, to that part of their identity, even though they were physically free. Some might say they forgot to worship God and instead worshiped their past, their ancestors, and/or their leaders.

Interesting how the Israelites were constantly looking back to Egypt, over to the golden serpent, etc, out to their leader, but rarely up to God. I don't know that Apostolic Identity focuses that much on the past, but I have seen definite signs that it might be in some circles. Good post, DA.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by missourimary

And all but two over a certain age died in the wilderness. So they were mentally bound to their past, to that part of their identity, even though they were physically free. Some might say they forgot to worship God and instead worshiped their past, their ancestors, and/or their leaders.
Interesting how the Israelites were constantly looking back to Egypt, over to the golden serpent, etc, out to their leader, but rarely up to God. I don't know that Apostolic Identity focuses that much on the past, but I have seen definite signs that it might be in some circles. Good post, DA.

I missed the part where they worshipped their leader Moses. I was taught they complained to him.
Actually, it tells us in Hebrews 3:19, "So we see that they were not able to enter (the Promised Land), because of their unbelief."