God's Grace, Love or Mercy will not SAVE you ...

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

Creative reading, I have lost count of the number of times Alicea has said ON THIS FORUM, that baptism in Jesus' Name is a commandment and not a suggestion.

because he says it is a commandment doesn't mean he ldoesn't loses what the commandment is for and it's significance. God could command you to do anything but what "IT" is doesn't negate your making it nothing but a meaningless symbol without any actuality or spiritual significance beyond simply "just do it"! I find the reason most fight against baptism for what it is about is because baptism for what it is can't fit in the theological construct they believe. Thus let's throw out clear teaching because it won't fit our mindset. Which points to more issues than just baptism.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Sorry don't believe in this mindset. We are saved because of our response to the covenant and he will judge in the end. Sanctification is a very misapplied concept. Judgment is based upon known responsibility and response to what is required of the hearer from the start to the end. We are his as long as we abide.

Just curious, could you clarify when we no longer abide? How do we know for sure when this "Unabiding" takes place?

I find it strange that we can be Unbirthed.

Do your children cease to be your children? Does God call us His Children?

You know, Jesus told his disciples that to accept and understand children means we will understand and be partakers of God's Kingdom. When the children came close to Jesus, his disciples rebuked the people or adults allowing this. Jesus came right back, correcting this attitude.

When's the last time you've held a child in your arms? Getting close to children and allowing them to become a part of our hearts will help us to see how God see's us. God feels towards us, how we feel about our children.

Would you throw your children into Hell, even if they fail, fall, and stumble in this life?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Just wondering... is it a sin Legalist to not say grace over a meal?

Is your heart unthankful because you didn't? That would be your answer! It could be a evidence of such but the rule of doing it does not defile. As a practice is it good? Yes! The sin is unthankful heart at enmity not the failure of prayer.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

because he says it is a commandment doesn't mean he ldoesn't loses what the commandment is for and it's significance. God could command you to do anything but what "IT" is doesn't negate your making it nothing but a meaningless symbol without any actuality or spiritual significance beyond simply "just do it"! I find the reason most fight against baptism for what it is about is because baptism for what it is can't fit in the theological construct they believe. Thus let's throw out clear teaching because it won't fit our mindset. Which points to more issues than just baptism.

Ah an Epleyite, if the person doing the baptism is a closet trinitarian the baptism is ineffectual?

Sorry a person repenting and committing their life to Jesus Christ who follows the commandment to baptized in His name has fulfilled the requirement.

Nowhere can you justify a doctrine stating they must have a perfect knowledge of all the hermeneutics involved.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Just curious, could you clarify when we no longer abide? How do we know for sure when this "Unabiding" takes place?

1Jn 3:20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.
1Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God;
1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Context is of believers in the vine thus why they whither up as a they are seperated from the vine.

I find it strange that we can be Unbirthed.

That is because your theology is at a false dilemma and a contrary usage of terms to how the Bible presents it. You are not unbirthed... that is nonsense... You are though judged and cast out!

Do your children cease to be your children? Does God call us His Children?

OSAS I suppose you believe. You are a servant to whom you obey! One leads to death and the other to life. Also the Prodigal Son negated his sonship by doing his own thing. Until he turned and came to his father did his Father declare him "ALIVE AGAIN"

You know, Jesus told his disciples that to accept and understand children means we will understand and be partakers of God's Kingdom. When the children came close to Jesus, his disciples rebuked the people or adults allowing this. Jesus came right back, correcting this attitude.

His words not mine get used to reading the Bible.

When's the last time you've held a child in your arms? Getting close to children and allowing them to become a part of our hearts will help us to see how God see's us. God feels towards us, how we feel about our children.

Again pathetic emotionalism that doesn't deal with scipture and one sided to love. God is a God of love and justice. Even toward his once children! Again we are servants to whom we obey.

Would you throw your children into Hell, even if they fail, fall, and stumble in this life?

Again very poor argument. God doesn't put us into hell WE PUT OURSELVES in HELL! You are appealing to emotion verses the reality of sin. Technically we are all his children saved or unsaved. He is our CREATOR thus go and jump on your universalist bandwagon that you just put yourself in.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

Ah an Epleyite, if the person doing the baptism is a closet trinitarian the baptism is ineffectual?

Sorry a person repenting and committing their life to Jesus Christ who follows the commandment to baptized in His name has fulfilled the requirement.

Nowhere can you justify a doctrine stating they must have a perfect knowledge of all the hermeneutics involved.

Nope... baptism is between man and God and you calling upon him.

Never said they had to have a knowledge of everything LOL! Trusting and calling upon God to do what he said he would do. Baptism is a appointed time in which we are united with the death/blood of Christ in which we arise to newness of life.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Nope... baptism is between man and God and you calling upon him.

Never said they had to have a knowledge of everything LOL! Trusting and calling upon God to do what he said he would do. Baptism is a appointed time in which we are united with the death/blood of Christ in which we arise to newness of life.

And if a person believes their sins were remitted at repentance but they are baptized in Jesus Name subsequent, believing they are following the Lord's commandment, are they lost?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

And if a person believes their sins were remitted at repentance but they are baptized in Jesus Name subsequent, believing they are following the Lord's commandment, are they lost?

don't know, as anything I would say would be a guess. I believe and hope they are. False doctrine is it's own sin in the end should they teach it that way. Are they in covenant? If they think no significance is in baptism I have a issue with that as the point is believing upon him FOR something. Would God forgive ignorance? Sure but how much who knows. Just do what is right and teach it right. If you feel you need to be rebaptized then do it. God will answer you on what to do. I would not judge against them if that is what you are asking. Seek him in fulness of heart and you will do what is right.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

don't know, as anything I would say would be a guess. I believe and hope they are. False doctrine is it's own sin in the end should they teach it that way. Are they in covenant? If they think no significance is in baptism I have a issue with that as the point is believing upon him FOR something. Would God forgive ignorance? Sure but how much who knows. Just do what is right and teach it right. If you feel you need to be rebaptized then do it. God will answer you on what to do. I would not judge against them if that is what you are asking. Seek him in fulness of heart and you will do what is right.

Good dodge. Any answer other than an emphatic NO, (which you were wise enough to avoid), leaves open the possibility than you and Dan are more on the same page than you publicly care to admit.

Good job! There is hope for you yet.

[Michael The Disciple]

It certainly would be a distortion of the whole counsel of God to think we can be finally saved apart from doing doing the will of God.

15: Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16: For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17: And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17

If you dont do the will of God......no eternal life.

This by no means justifies the doctrines of men as taught by Stoneking and others. Neither does it justify the doctrine that obedience has no part in salvation. It is what it is. Faith without works is dead TO YHWH.