The UPC is a dying movement!

[Bill E Goat]

Originally Posted by houston

Tolerant of what?

Hippies and shrooms

[Esaias]

lol

[n david]

Originally Posted by houston

Tolerant of what?

I saw the main speaker for one of their conferences was this guy:








j/k of course

[aegsm76]

You guys (and gals) are so funny...

[n david]

Originally Posted by Sandra

At because of the times, the general sup. Kenneth haney said" Fathers encourage your sons to preach the gospel, we are getting no applications from men under the age of 45" .

I stand by my statement ITS DYING ! SANDRA

The UPCI General Superintendent, Dr. David Bernard, released his monthly news bulletin today. Link to Newsletter

Noteworthy is the statistics which completely contradict the OP post above.

When the OP was written in 2009, it was in the middle of a decline of UPCI churches and ministers.

2008
# of Ministers = 9,204
# of Churches = 4,307

2009
# of Ministers = 9,160
# of Churches = 4,269

There was a significant decline in ministers, not counting any decrease in new applications.

Fast forward to 2017
# of Ministers = 10,221
# of Churches = 4,736

Over a thousand new ministers in less than 10 years and almost 500 new churches in that same time.

Now, as great as that is, what is more incredible is what has been financially. Years ago, the UPCI was in a financial mess. As the newsletter states, there were over 10 ministries in deficit, with three of them having "$3 million, $2.3 million and $1.8 million deficits." "Through restructuring, cutting costs and increasing revenues, every ministry is operating in the black and the three main deficits are being steadily retired."

They recently moved into a new building, which was an incredible deal in itself - "$17 million" dollar facility "yet in essence, basically free." (Unsure what is meant by this.)

No, the UPCI isn't dying.

[Aquila]

This isn't meant to be a bash against any organization. But numbers don't determine if a movement or an organization is alive or not. The Catholic Church is perhaps the largest Christian organization on the planet.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

This isn't meant to be a bash against any organization. But numbers don't determine if a movement or an organization is alive or not. The Catholic Church is perhaps the largest Christian organization on the planet.

The OP was claiming the UPC was dying because ministerial applications were dropping. Numbers increasing or decreasing do point to whether an organization is doing well or not.

[Captain]

What n david said. The entire premise of this very long thread is that the UPCI is dying based on numbers of ministers. So it is entirely relevant to point out the new data above

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by n david

The UPCI General Superintendent, Dr. David Bernard, released his monthly news bulletin today. Link to Newsletter

Noteworthy is the statistics which completely contradict the OP post above.

When the OP was written in 2009, it was in the middle of a decline of UPCI churches and ministers.

2008
# of Ministers = 9,204
# of Churches = 4,307

2009
# of Ministers = 9,160
# of Churches = 4,269

There was a significant decline in ministers, not counting any decrease in new applications.

Fast forward to 2017
# of Ministers = 10,221
# of Churches = 4,736

Over a thousand new ministers in less than 10 years and almost 500 new churches in that same time.

Now, as great as that is, what is more incredible is what has been financially. Years ago, the UPCI was in a financial mess. As the newsletter states, there were over 10 ministries in deficit, with three of them having "$3 million, $2.3 million and $1.8 million deficits." "Through restructuring, cutting costs and increasing revenues, every ministry is operating in the black and the three main deficits are being steadily retired."

They recently moved into a new building, which was an incredible deal in itself - "$17 million" dollar facility "yet in essence, basically free." (Unsure what is meant by this.)

No, the UPCI isn't dying.

Data can be tricky. Numbers alone never tell the story. Was there an increase in the number of ministers due to a natural occurrence of growth, or through some kind of pressure within the organization to solve it's decline from the previous years? Have any of the districts changed or lowered their requirements of local license, such that many more men and women have become licensed? If so, how many of them weren't really qualified, until the requirements were changed or lowered?

Nobody here or there has the answers to these questions. I merely offer them to raise the point that these numbers don't tell us nearly as much as we may at first assume.

As far as the increase in the number of churches, does that number incorporate the UPCI affiliated churches that caved in or shut doors? Was the numerical increase partially due to schisms, in which a licensed minister left one church over some set of issues but then went on to begin another?

The fact is we can't say with any certainty one way or another, meaning, since we can't properly interpret this data without further context, the data becomes meaningless/not an indicator of anything.

[houston]

Why are there so many more ministers than churches? Are they counting local license and evangelists?