Signs & Wonders

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I see absolutely no conflict in the passage and a saint that is full of faith and the Holy Spirit but sick in body - even dying.

It is a message of strength and victorious hope to rest in the sovereignty of God Almighty. I fully understand making our desires known to God, but ultimately our prayer must be "not mine - but thy will be done".

I agree with your bolded part 100%. But the fact is that if you have the Word of God plainly promising your healing, then you HAVE HIS WILL.

It is so funny that Jesus came healing everyone that he touched, yet we in 2007 still question if it is his will to heal.

[stmatthew]

Someone take Isaiah 53 and study out the greek on it and they will find that Youngs translation is very close to the original in its meaning.

Isa 53:4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains -- he hath carried them, And we -- we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace [is] on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us. (YLT)

If he bore our sickness and pain, just as he bore our sins for us, why should we continue to bare them??

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Someone take Isaiah 53 and study out the greek on it and they will find that Youngs translation is very close to the original in its meaning.




If he bore our sickness and pain, just as he bore our sins for us, why should we continue to bare them??

Hebrew, Matt.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Hebrew, Matt.

HAHAHA!!! You are correct!

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Ecc 3: 1-3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

The lack of context is overwhelming.........

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

The lack of context is overwhelming.........

Dave,

I can see where a failure to exercise proper theology could result in the arguments that are occurring in this thread. ALL understanding of God must begin with his sovereignty and any subsequent studies of the characteristics of God must stand firmly upon this foundation. A lack of embracing this foundational truth of God results in many problematic doctrines like God is logical or prosperity doctrines and many others.

Another issue that I think causes many to misunderstand the issue of healing is their failure to comprehend the contrasts of the continuums of time and eternity. It is extremely hard for us to really grasp "everywhere and every time present at once..." For God to be concurrently at the beginning and the ending violates our understanding because we are trapped in the continuum of time. He is simultaneously at the point of my sickness and at the place of my recovery, be that at a time of instantaneous healing or when my corruption has put on incorruption.

I am thankful I serve an eternally sovereign God who is fully in control of my life and my faith is fully in Him and what ever happens in my life is right and will work together for my good if I am abiding by the principle of loving God and living as one called according to His purpose.

It is real simple to me.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by philjones

Dave,

I can see where a failure to exercise proper theology could result in the arguments that are occurring in this thread. ALL understanding of God must begin with his sovereignty and any subsequent studies of the characteristics of God must stand firmly upon this foundation. A lack of embracing this foundational truth of God results in many problematic doctrines like God is logical or prosperity doctrines and many others.

Another issue that I think causes many to misunderstand the issue of healing is their failure to comprehend the contrasts of the continuums of time and eternity. It is extremely hard for us to really grasp "everywhere and every time present at once..." For God to be concurrently at the beginning and the ending violates our understanding because we are trapped in the continuum of time. He is simultaneously at the point of my sickness and at the place of my recovery, be that at a time of instantaneous healing or when my corruption has put on incorruption.

I am thankful I serve an eternally sovereign God who is fully in control of my life and my faith is fully in Him and what ever happens in my life is right and will work together for my good if I am abiding by the principle of loving God and living as one called according to His purpose.

It is real simple to me.

Good post. Very provocative. We do serve a BIG God. One could say that our healing takes place at the same time as our salvation......at death.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

The lack of context is overwhelming.........

I was constrained by time and laziness.

Jesus is the same always, if he healed all that came to him when walking on the earth, he does the same now, only through his Spirit-filled saints. Faith does play a role in everything we receive from Jesus including healing. He hasn't changed. The same principles apply.

As for the man who was crippled and healed, God knows the times and the seasons. The when and the whys. I believe God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't willy nilly pick and chose who to heal and who to save. That's the impression I get from your post when you attribute all healing to God's sovereignity. If anyone comes to Him in faith believing, according to his word, they will be healed. Unless there are other reasons, like Paul's thorn in the flesh. I don't claim to know it all, but I believe God will honor his word if we obey the conditions of his promises.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I was constrained by time and laziness.

Jesus is the same always, if he healed all that came to him when walking on the earth, he does the same now, only through his Spirit-filled saints. Faith does play a role in everything we receive from Jesus including healing. He hasn't changed. The same principles apply.
As for the man who was crippled and healed, God knows the times and the seasons. The when and the whys. I believe God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't willy nilly pick and chose who to heal and who to save. That's the impression I get from your post when you attribute all healing to God's sovereignity. If anyone comes to Him in faith believing, according to his word, they will be healed. Unless there are other reasons, like Paul's thorn in the flesh. I don't claim to know it all, but I believe God will honor his word if we obey the conditions of his promises.

B-b-but... he turned the water into wine at a wedding when there arose a shortage... We had a shortage at my own wedding, I believed, but no wine.

What gives???

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by philjones

Dave,

I can see where a failure to exercise proper theology could result in the arguments that are occurring in this thread. ALL understanding of God must begin with his sovereignty and any subsequent studies of the characteristics of God must stand firmly upon this foundation. A lack of embracing this foundational truth of God results in many problematic doctrines like God is logical or prosperity doctrines and many others.

Another issue that I think causes many to misunderstand the issue of healing is their failure to comprehend the contrasts of the continuums of time and eternity. It is extremely hard for us to really grasp "everywhere and every time present at once..." For God to be concurrently at the beginning and the ending violates our understanding because we are trapped in the continuum of time. He is simultaneously at the point of my sickness and at the place of my recovery, be that at a time of instantaneous healing or when my corruption has put on incorruption.

I am thankful I serve an eternally sovereign God who is fully in control of my life and my faith is fully in Him and what ever happens in my life is right and will work together for my good if I am abiding by the principle of loving God and living as one called according to His purpose.

It is real simple to me.

Bro Phil,

I disagree with you. ALL understanding of God must begin with His Word. This is all we have to go on. And if his Word proclaims that he bore our sicknesses on Calvary (as Isa 53 states), would he contradict His Word because of his sovereignty.

This "God is Sovereign and can do as he pleases" mentality has always baffled me. Does the fact that God is sovereign mean that he is willing to oppose His own Word??

The problem as I see it is that some do not see the promise of healing available to all, but only to a selected group. It negates a real prayer of faith from being prayed when one believes this, because the one praying cannot be certain that it is Gods will for healing to occur.