No Apostolic church would commit financial suicide in order to support a strange new doctrine.
The tithe was established from before the law, during the law and even after the law.
"strange new doctrine"
LIST OF TITHING OPPONENTS IN HISTORY
Clement of Rome 100 Didache 100 (also see my site and book) Justin Martyr 165 Tertullian 230 Origen 255 Cyprian 258 (my site) Waldenses 1150+- Thomas Aquinas 1275 John Wycliff 1384 John Huss 1415 German Peasants 1520 Anabaptists 1525 Erasmus 1536 Otto Brumfels 1534 Martin Luther 1546 Philip Melanchthon 1560 Separatists Amsterdam 1603 John Smythe 1609 Baptist John Robinson 1610 English Parliament 1650+- Puritans & Plgrims Mass 1650+- John Cotton 1652 Puritan Roger Williams 1636 Baptist Little Parliament 1653 Oliver Cromwell 1658 John Milton 1658 Puritan Particular Baptists 1660 John Owen 1680 Baptist Francis Turretin 1687 John Bunyan 1688 Baptist Quakers 1768 John Gill 1771 Baptist John Wesley 1791 (my site) BAPTISTS IN AMERICA 1800s Adam Clarke 1832 Baptist Charles Buck 1833 J C Philpot 1835 Baptist Charles H Spurgeon 1832 Baptist Parsons Cooke 1850 Samuel Harris 1850 Edward A Lawrence 1850 John Peter Lange 1876 Henry William Clark 1891 Engllish S H Kellogg 1891 G Campbell Morgan 1898 Congregational Albert Vail 1913 Baptist Frank Fox 1913 David MaConaughy 11918 Episcopal William Pettingill 1932 John Harvey Grime 1934 Baptist John T Mueller 1934 Lutheran H E Dana 1937 Bapt Historian (my site) R C H LENSKI 1946 Lutheran Lewis Sperry Chafer 1948 DTS Foundeer W E Vine 1949 James F Rand 1953 Francis Pieper 1953 Lutheran Ray Stedman 1951 L L McR 1955 Catholic Paul Leonard Stagg 1958 Baptist Hiley H Ward 1958 Baptist Roy T Cowles 1958 Elizabeth P Tilton 1958 R C Rein 1958 Lutheran Robert A Baker 1959 Bapt Historian Wick Bromall 1960 John Byron Evans 1960 Norman Tenpas 1967 James Edward Anderson 1967 Alfred Martin 1968 CHARLES C RYRIE 1969 DTS Jerry Horner 1972 S Baptist Pieter Verhoef 1974 Dennis Wretlind 1975 Jack J Peterson 1978 Pres Donald Kraybill 1978 Jon Zens 1979 Baptist Richard Cunningham 1979 S Bapt Gary Frieson 1980 JOHN MACARTHUR 1982-2000 Paul Fink 1982 George Monroe Castillo 1982 Tony Badillo 1984 James M Boice 1986 Michael E Oliver 1986 Rest W Clyde Tilley 1987 Scott Collier 1987 Ronald M Campbell 1987 R E O White 1988 William McDonald 1989 Charles Swindoll 1990 Dallas Seminary Rhodes Thompson 1990 J VERNON MCGEE 1999 Jerome Smith 1992 CRAIG BLOMBERG 1993 Denver Seminary J Duncan M Derrett 1993 Walter Kaiser Jr 1994 Gordon-Cromwell Moises Silva 1994 Benny D Prince 1995 Brian K Morley 1996 Linda L Belleville 1996 Ron Rhodes 1997 Ernest L Martin 1997 Michael Webb 1998 R Johnston 1999 Mark Snoeberger 2000 Baptist Stuart Murray 2000 Eng George W Greene 2000 Old Line Primitive Baptists 2000 Jaime Cardinal Sin 2000 Cath Archbishop RUSSELL EARL KELLY 2001 Baptist Jonathan Kitchcart 2001 Frank Viola 2002 George Barna 2002 Michael Morrison 2002 Elliott Miller 2003 Matthew Narramore 2004 David Alan Black 2004 Baptist SEBTS (my site) Andreas Kostenberger 2007 Baptist SEBTS (my site) Danny Akin 2007 Baptist SEBTS (my site) Mark Driscoll 2008 Roman Catholic Church Jehovah’s Witnesses New Worldwide Church of God
Yeah...but those folks aren't Apostolic so they don't have the revelation! When you come to the revelation of Christ and the Oneness, the tithing revelation is automatic within you. LOL.
No Apostolic church would commit financial suicide in order to support a strange new doctrine.
The tithe was established from before the law, during the law and even after the law.
First... the tithe wasn't "established" before the law. One time in Abrahams life he gave a tenth of the spoils of war to a King. (which was an established custom of those days) That isn't establishing a tithe. An established tithe would be that it was an established concept that people gave a tenth to the Levites or some facsimile thereof.
To state that one man gave a tenth, not of his income or his flock, but of the spoils of war one time to one king isn't an established concept. It is an example of something that happened in history.
Secondly... It isn't committing financial suicide. It is trusting God. If one has a true understanding of what is being said in Malachi 3 we would see that God was telling the priests... who were keeping all of the tithe for themselves... that if they would trust God and go back to the 10% they were supposed to be keeping then they would have more than they could handle. It would seem that going from 100% to 10% would be financial suicide but God said... do it my way and see what happens. I'll bless you more than you can handle.
This is what preachers tell people all the time. You think you can't afford to tithe? You can't afford NOT to tithe... try God and see if He doesn't pour out on you a blessing you cannot contain.
But... then... when the tables are turned and someone says... trust the Lord... now all of a sudden it's financial suicide.
On the issue of what was really being said in Malachi 3 here is a post of mine from another thread.
Quote:
In Numbers 18 the instructions were that 10% of the tithe was to be kept for the Levites (Which would include all of those who worked in the temple... porters, musicians etc). Then another 10% was to be given to the priest. They were to take only 10% for each group but they were allowed to take the best of it.
The rest fed the elderly, the poor, the widows, the orphans, strangers etc.
Also the priest was never to handle the tithe outside the 10% that was given to him by God's word. The Levites who were not priests handled the division of the tithe to the priests, themselves and the people and what was not in the 20% given to the priests & Levites was kept in the store house.
Now... with that in mind remember what Nehemiah found when he came to Jerusalem? (Also remember that Nehemiah and Malachi were contemporaries)
* He found an Ammonite living in the storehouse rather than the tithe being stored there.
* He found the priests handling the tithe rather than the Levites.
* He found the priests were keeping ALL the tithe and weren't even giving the Levites their part and had the Levites working... even on the sabbath.
* He found that the poor, elderly, widows etc were not being fed with the tithe.
Now... take in consideration that Malachi starts off his book by stating this in 1:1... The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
He was saying... this message is to Israel.
Now note this... In 2:1 he states And now, O ye priests, this commandment [is] for you.
And he never denotes a change of audience even through the third chapter.
Malachi was talking about what Nehemiah had found in the temple.
Mal 3:8 KJV - Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. (WHO robbed God? Who is Malachi talking to? The Priests!!!) But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. (They were stealing the tithes & offerings by not having them handled according to Gods law) Mal 3:9 KJV - Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation. (The priests have not only robbed God but they have robbed the entire nation because the tithe was to the Levites first... then the priests... then the entire nation) Mal 3:10 KJV - Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, (Kick out that Ammonite who is forbidden to even be in the congregation much less live in the storehouse. And... did the people EVER take their tithes to the storehouse? No... they brought it to the Levites. This isn't to the people. This is to the priests who were mishandling the tithe when they shouldn't have been handling it at all) that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].
So God is saying... handle the tithe the way I said to handle it. You might think you'll be broke if you do that because you're taking it all right now but try my word... take care of my people... give the control back to the Levites... give the Levites there portion... feed the people. Do all this so there will, once again, be meat in my house and you'll find out that your blessings will be more than you can handle.
Like the preachers say... you just have to understand Gods math.
But these scriptures are twisted 180 degrees from the actual message.
Fellowship Bible Church
Decatur, TX
Fellowshipbiblentx.org
Beliefs on website.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
I guess my church is a FREEWILL GIVING church because its not forced. In fact we preach FREEWILL is what God has gave us. Now if they want to go heaven God demands tithing.....
I haven't been stirred up on this subject for quite some time, but it is statements contrary to the gospel, like this, that really bother me. Have ye not read, we are not redeemed by corruptible things like silver and gold, but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ? When you sing "what can wash away my sins? Do you add 'and paying tithes' to the blood of Jesus? To say that god demands tithing to go to heaven isn't only ignorant, it is heresy, and an insult to the grace of God and the blood of Christ.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
You still on your crusade against tithing?
Not very successful, I can see from the list of churches you give.
Perhaps belivers in freewill giving should make a new version of the New Testament, and take out the references to christian tithing.....oh wait, there are none.
Now, wasn't there a fellow who went through the trouble of publishing a whole new version of the Bible, The Holy Apostolic New Testament, just to erase the text of Matthew 28:19? Now who did that, FlaminZword?
So you tell me who has a problem with scripture?!
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Perhaps belivers in freewill giving should make a new version of the New Testament, and take out the references to christian tithing.....oh wait, there are none.
Now, wasn't there a fellow who went through the trouble of publishing a whole new version of the Bible, The Holy Apostolic New Testament, just to erase the text of Matthew 28:19? Now who did that, FlaminZword?
So you tell me who has a problem with scripture?!
Jason as always good to see you
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
To all that may read this who have been called to labor in the gospel. We have discussed the tithing issue for many years. IMO it is time to organize, sacrifice, and plant churches who want and will carry the banner of truth. Where truth is at the front of all that we say and do.
Forced tithing of money has taken the place of our Lord's suffering and sacrifice. It is now required for membership to the Body of Christ. We have been told it could effect your health, marriage, your children's well being and just plain bad things can happen to you if you don't.
One Org requires a signed statement that you will teach and practice tithing money, this I was told by a minister.
It seems the time has come to plant churches who will not teach this heresy. Whether it be home churches or the building approach. Not everyone is suited for home assembly or the building approach. One may have to move to different locales in order to live and worship in freedom. Through out history there were exodus's to flee tyranny, yes tyranny. Threatening eternity in hell if you don't line up is terror as well.
I know there are more than enough who are willing to sacrifice for this cause of truth.
Look at our ancestors--> 2nd Cor. 4
9 For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, but we are dishonored! 11 To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless. 12 And we labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; 13 being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now. Paul’s Paternal Care
14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. 15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you, imitate me.
22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?
Are we willing to start moving in church planting? Sacrifice and suffering? Can we endure and imitate Paul.
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