Born Gay? Or God's Call?

[berkeley]

chosen,

In Tamor's defense, I can vouch that she does not believe "once a homosexual always a homosexual."

[SDG]

Originally Posted by CC1

Dan Scott really talked about in a sermon two important things I found interesting.

First he put forth the thought that while therpists and counselors are good at helping people come face to face with their issues only God can change the person.

Secondly he talked about how there comes a point in counseling when a person has to face the reality they don't want to face about themselves. Also the same situation with preachers and people that get revealed to be in gross sexual sins. He said that it is right after that horrible, miserable moment when all of their failures are brought to light that they actually feel the freeest. It is the first time in a long time they are no longer living a lie and trying to hide things. As painful as it is and embarressing as it is it gives them a point to have a new start from with all of their foibles and weaknesses exposed.

Amen.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Sister,

Don't you know that through our weaknesses He is made strong? You take away from the very essence of that passage and the power of the transformation from a life of sin to a life with Christ.

If you have scripture to substantiate your beliefs, please enlighten me. Otherwise, I don't feel the need to continue this debate with you.

"In the multitude of counselors there is safety."

"Lead us not into temptation, but deliever us from evil."

I think it's sad, that you are picking apart what I say and making into something mean. I think it is you who is trying to make homosexuality something different from other sins because I have lumped it into the category of all sexual sins and said they should all be treated in the same way. You seem to want a special category where an adulterous woman does not counsel with a pastor alone, but homosexuals do counsel each other alone. I gave some good advice. You are right. This conversation should end. You are turning it into something that never was.

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by ILG

"In the multitude of counselors there is safety."

"Lead us not into temptation, but deliever us from evil."

I think it's sad, that you are picking apart what I say and making into something mean. I think it is you who is trying to make homosexuality something different from other sins because I have lumped it into the category of all sexual sins and said they should all be treated in the same way. You seem to want a special category where an adulterous woman does not counsel with a pastor alone, but homosexuals do counsel each other alone. I gave some good advice. You are right. This conversation should end. You are turning it into something that never was.

You assumed that I have weakness regarding homosexuality. I don't know how you came to that conclusion for only God can see my heart and know where my weaknesses are today. You mentioned a couple of your struggles with sin, so let me ask you if you consider them weaknesses today. I found that the Holy Ghost has empowered me to not have to fear what I've been set free from, namely homosexuality. I would never put myself in a situation if I didn't feel that God would go before me.

You mentioned that I want a special catagory for a woman struggling with adultery to not counsel with a man but a homosexual couseling another alone? I never said anything like that at all. Go back and the posts. What I'm hearing is that you are making false assumptions/accusations that many people throw out because of their lack of knowledge. I never turned anything that was written her around to be mean....I was just repeating what you were writing.

You assumed that because I WAS a homosexual that I couldn't counsel someone seeking deliverance from homosexuality for fear that I would be tempted. That is a very presumptous opinion. Let me explain that even when I was a homosexual, I wasn't tempted to give into any sexual desires with every man that crossed my path.

I would agree that a sister "struggling" with adultery shouldn't counsel with a man because she was still struggling with that sin. Now, if that sister were to be delivered and restored in God's sight, there shouldn't be any problem with her counseling with a man of God. Agreed?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I believe you made that you assumed that I have weakness regarding homosexuality. I don't know how you came to that conclusion for only God can see my heart and know where my weaknesses are today. You mentioned a couple of you struggles with sin, so let me ask you if you consider them weaknesses today. I found that the Holy Ghost has empowered me to not have to fear what I've been set free from, namely homosexuality. I would never put myself in a situation if I didn't feel that God would go before me.

You assumed that because I WAS a homosexual that I couldn't counsel someone seeking deliverance from homosexuality for fear that I would be tempted. That is a very presumptous opinion. Let me explain that even when I was a homosexual, I wasn't tempted to give into any sexual desires with every man that crossed my path.

Furthermore, I never stated that it was wise for a sister who was struggling with adultery to counsel with a man of God. Please go back and read the posts.

I would agree that a sister "struggling" with adultery shouldn't counsel with a man because she was still struggling with that sin. Now, if that sister were to be delivered and restored in God's sight, there shouldn't be any problem with her counseling with a man of God. Agreed?

CBO, I feel like you have twisted much of what I said.

I still hold to what I said, anyone struggling with sexual sins should use precautions in who they counsel with. Most pastors will not counsel alone with a woman, period, unless the door is open and a secretary nearby, etc. Homosexuality is not so different.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by ILG

CBO, I feel like you have twisted much of what I said.

I still hold to what I said, anyone struggling with sexual sins should use precautions in who they counsel with. Most pastors will not counsel alone with a woman, period, unless the door is open and a secretary nearby, etc. Homosexuality is not so different.

I agree...

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

I agree...

Thanks, Berk.

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

OK, now you stated that you were creeped out by people that once struggled with sexual sin. The scriptures you wrote above have nothing to do with your statement.

This is what ILG wrote: "I think homosexuality along with other sexual sins is a bit different though in that it kind of creeps people out because folks don't want to be the object of any kind of wrong thoughts."

She didn't say she was creeped out and the point she was making was that people don't want to be the object of any kind of wrong thoughts coming from another. Meaning, people don't want others to look to them in a sexual manner that is wrong and THAT is why it creeps people out.

You assumed that because I WAS a homosexual that I couldn't counsel someone seeking deliverance from homosexuality for fear that I would be tempted. That is a very presumptous opinion. Let me explain that even when I was a homosexual, I wasn't tempted to give into any sexual desires with every man that crossed my path.

She said nothing personal toward you. However, in this you seem to be forgetting the other potential parties. Perhaps YOU may not be tempted, but ones yet struggling may well be. I agree with ILG's words of caution. There's no need to counsel if one is free and completely healed of a matter, is there? Otherwise, there is the difficulty of a potential problem by privately counseling with one of the same sex- whether it is homosexuality or adultery.

You've read things into her posts which were not spoken by her.

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by ILG

CBO, I feel like you have twisted much of what I said.

I still hold to what I said, anyone struggling with sexual sins should use precautions in who they counsel with. Most pastors will not counsel alone with a woman, period, unless the door is open and a secretary nearby, etc. Homosexuality is not so different.

I totally agree with what you just wrote. I wasn't getting that from your earlier posts and if I read too much into what you were trying to relay, I apologize. At the time, I was busy receiving several PMs and switching back and forth between this thread and those PMs.

Your statement about being creeped out about people struggling with sexual sin could be damaging to someone lurking that may be looking for some compassion if there were caught in the grips of one of those sins.

Also, I don't even see myself as a sexual being. I couldn't make the connection of a heterosexual male minister counseling a adulterous woman with me counseling someone struggling with homosexuality. It may be hard for some to understand that I'm what many would consider asexual. I don't have any desires or thoughts of sex at all.

I tend to be somewhat sensitive to that type of language, because it does make it personal not to me at this stage of my life, but to others. Can you you understand?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I totally agree with what you just wrote. I wasn't getting that from your earlier posts and if I read too much into what you were trying to relay, I apologize. At the time, I was busy receiving several PMs and switching back and forth between this thread and those PMs.

Your statement about being creeped out about people struggling with sexual sin could be damaging to someone lurking that may be looking for some compassion if there were caught in the grips of one of those sins.

Also, I don't even see myself as a sexual being. I couldn't make the connection of a heterosexual male minister counseling a adulterous woman with me counseling someone struggling with homosexuality. It may be hard for some to understand that I'm what many would consider asexual. I don't have any desires or thoughts of sex at all.

I tend to be somewhat sensitive to that type of language, because it does make it personal not to me at this stage of my life, but to others. Can you you understand?

Apology accepted.

As far as you being asexual, I think if you have a homosexual past I don't know that you could be considered asexual. A person who was asexual would be someone who has had no sexual feelings.

Language is an interesting thing. I think everyone should be creeped out by sexual sins. If they are not, I find that troublesome. I think it is more likely that they would be offended by what they THOUGHT I said rather than what I actually said. They would be assuming that I would be creeped out by they, themselves, when in effect, I said no such thing. I'm not sure I can take any responsibility for that. I think people involved in certain sins in the past sometimes read things into what people say. Sometimes people actually are nasty and militant, but unfortunately hurt and pain can cloud what people think other people say and they can be hurt by things that were never said in the first place.