How stupid is it to...

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by canam

business's have preferences, why can't churchs?

I've never seen a church where platform "preferences" were anything but what the pastor wanted to see out of everyone.

It is part of the unspoken pressure to line up to this or that. And who on earth would hinder a man who is gifted in ministry over facial hair? Why would you tell someone in so many words... I see the ability to minister in you... I see your calling... but until you shave that facial hair... you can't do it here.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by canam

business's have preferences, why can't churchs?

Hmmm... they can I suppose, but the problem I see is that the church is composed of all different walks of life and by definition is diverse. Not so in most business models. Their preferences and dress code is applied to a similar group. For example what the US Starbucks execs might be required to do, does not extend to the barista, truck driver and the coffee bean harvesters.

If the church sets a standard it should be flexible. They should not pattern it after a particular a white collar middle class model. Neither should they use a model best suited for a logger or fishermen. There are times of course when business standards are applied for safety concerns - which is a different issue altogether.

Bottom line? The "No Beards" policy was probably established by white collar men with no beards, and not a fisherman or logger with a beard, even though they are equal brothers in Christ.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Hmmm... they can I suppose, but the problem I see is that the church is composed of all different walks of life and by definition is diverse. Not so in most business models. Their preferences and dress code is applied to a similar group. For example what the US Starbucks execs might be required to do, does not extend to the barista, truck driver and the coffee bean harvesters.

If the church sets a standard it should be flexible. They should not pattern it after a particular a white collar middle class model. Neither should they use a model best suited for a logger or fishermen. There are times of course when business standards are applied for safety concerns - which is a different issue altogether.

Bottom line? The "No Beards" policy was probably established by white collar men with no beards, and not a fisherman or logger with a beard, even though they are equal brothers in Christ.

This is equal to blasphemy... it contains common sense and is way too intelligent for "Apostolica".
















































Great post!

[canam]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I've never seen a church where platform "preferences" were anything but what the pastor wanted to see out of everyone.

It is part of the unspoken pressure to line up to this or that. And who on earth would hinder a man who is gifted in ministry over facial hair? Why would you tell someone in so many words... I see the ability to minister in you... I see your calling... but until you shave that facial hair... you can't do it here.

Ahh, except if you want to be in ministry and expect people to follow your leadership ie submit, then you have to expect to submit to your pastor, as he submits to God.Otherwise ya got a bunch of yahoos all doing their own thing.Then again, i suppose some pastors dont care what the congregation does or how they live just as long as they keep dropping the cash.

[papapraiz]

Originally Posted by canam

Its my understanding that Bro Steve Pixler said recently and i quote,i can almost give you enough scripture that says, you SHOULD have a beard !however i would prefer that you didnt on my platform.Needless to say, he is taking quite a beating from some of his conservative brethern.

The message you are speaking of is on his church podcast http://acfw.org/Sermons.aspx.

It was preached on 6/23/2010 and is called This Present Distress: Learning To Use Wisdom In A Changing World

Ferd is right - it is balanced and biblical.

[onefaith2]

Could we come up with a different title.. the word stupid reeks of something else besides the idea of a productive conversation lol

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Answered13

But hippies had beards, hippies are of the devil, beards are of the devil. Simple really.

The problem is we have simple minded men that have proclaimed themselves Gods messengers.

So simple they can not discern between their own personal preferences and biblical doctrine.

[lisafitzh2o]

I have an honest question... maybe you all can answer for me. Why is it that when a business, school, etc. asks us to follow guidelines, no one complains? Maybe we don't enjoy abiding by their rules, but we blindly do what they say.

When I was in high school, the guys who played football had to shave their heads when the season began. They came from all walks of life... country boys, preppy guys, jocks. Nevertheless, they went to the barber before training began. It set them apart from the rest of the guys at school.

I know of 2 universities off the top of my head who require their girls in chorale to wear only dresses/skirts. I have read their policies, and they have sleeve length/neckline stipulations... and these schools are FAR from being apostolic. Again, it sets them apart from other girls on campus.

Even the New York Yankees have had a "no facial hair/long hair" policy, and guys know when they sign on, they've gotta get a razor. They are held to a different standard than other MLB teams.

Yet when a pastor wants people to abide by certain guidelines, suddenly we scream heresy. Is it because it's a "church" and not a school/business/athletic department... or do we just not want someone telling us what to do? This has puzzled me for years.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Hmmm... they can I suppose, but the problem I see is that the church is composed of all different walks of life and by definition is diverse. Not so in most business models. Their preferences and dress code is applied to a similar group. For example what the US Starbucks execs might be required to do, does not extend to the barista, truck driver and the coffee bean harvesters.

If the church sets a standard it should be flexible. They should not pattern it after a particular a white collar middle class model. Neither should they use a model best suited for a logger or fishermen. There are times of course when business standards are applied for safety concerns - which is a different issue altogether.

Bottom line? The "No Beards" policy was probably established by white collar men with no beards, and not a fisherman or logger with a beard, even though they are equal brothers in Christ.

Originally Posted by lisafitzh2o

I have an honest question... maybe you all can answer for me. Why is it that when a business, school, etc. asks us to follow guidelines, no one complains? Maybe we don't enjoy abiding by their rules, but we blindly do what they say.

When I was in high school, the guys who played football had to shave their heads when the season began. They came from all walks of life... country boys, preppy guys, jocks. Nevertheless, they went to the barber before training began. It set them apart from the rest of the guys at school.

I know of 2 universities off the top of my head who require their girls in chorale to wear only dresses/skirts. I have read their policies, and they have sleeve length/neckline stipulations... and these schools are FAR from being apostolic. Again, it sets them apart from other girls on campus.

Even the New York Yankees have had a "no facial hair/long hair" policy, and guys know when they sign on, they've gotta get a razor. They are held to a different standard than other MLB teams.

Yet when a pastor wants people to abide by certain guidelines, suddenly we scream heresy. Is it because it's a "church" and not a school/business/athletic department... or do we just not want someone telling us what to do? This has puzzled me for years.

Its a fair question. Did I not answer it in that post?

We are not just reaching out to a sports team or choir members... we are reaching for all of society. Why place unneeded attachment and yokes on the gospel of Christ?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by lisafitzh2o

I have an honest question... maybe you all can answer for me. Why is it that when a business, school, etc. asks us to follow guidelines, no one complains? Maybe we don't enjoy abiding by their rules, but we blindly do what they say.

When I was in high school, the guys who played football had to shave their heads when the season began. They came from all walks of life... country boys, preppy guys, jocks. Nevertheless, they went to the barber before training began. It set them apart from the rest of the guys at school.

I know of 2 universities off the top of my head who require their girls in chorale to wear only dresses/skirts. I have read their policies, and they have sleeve length/neckline stipulations... and these schools are FAR from being apostolic. Again, it sets them apart from other girls on campus.

Even the New York Yankees have had a "no facial hair/long hair" policy, and guys know when they sign on, they've gotta get a razor. They are held to a different standard than other MLB teams.

Yet when a pastor wants people to abide by certain guidelines, suddenly we scream heresy. Is it because it's a "church" and not a school/business/athletic department... or do we just not want someone telling us what to do? This has puzzled me for years.

You know what puzzles me. How apostolics try to be as different from the "world" as they can but then use the world's practices to justify theirs.